Monochrom 1 v. Monochrom 2

[EoinC]

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Thanks! You're about the first who posts an MM2 image.

Here are a couple taken by my 18yo daughter using my M246 w/ SuperAngulon 21mm f/3.4 (also posted elsewhere on LUF)...

TC002 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr

 

TC001 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr

[wilfredo]

   I think we're as close to a consensus as we can possibly get, that one shoe size doesn't fit all.  I'm glad to see we can express our views with a measure of consideration for the other.  That doesn't always happen on these forums.  Whatever your preference, make it happen!  

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[Guest]

Sorry, the STREET SILHOUETTES "comparison" of film and digital — using the M10 vs M9 vs M6 — strikes me as somewhat weird. This blogger uses three different lenses on the three cameras without even addressing the obvious issues involved of having anything comparable. Then, the sets of pictures from the three cameras are presented in a way that the viewer sees one picture at a time. But to be able to see meaningful differences you would have to at least see two pictures at a time, or be able to see one picture and then the other in the same place by "mousing over" the image.

 

He does say, unexceptionally, that the two digital cameras are close in rendition while the film shots are different from the other two. And then he goes into rhapsody mode saying, "Film has soul, while digital is without character...[film has] a more natural rendering, given that nature doesn't usually follow any recognizable pattern...no two frames of exposure has the same grain pattern..This makes each individual exposure render slightly different, adding to the character of each film capture"...bla, bla, bla. 

 

As others have said the Portra 800 shots are of dismal quality, not at all an expression of the "soul" of film — Porta 800 usually, and easily, produces better results than shown here. Yes, film can look different from digital, but which is "better", or has more soul, also has a lot to do with how the photographer handles either medium. Come to think of it, the STREET SILHOUETTES comparison discussion would have been would be more credible had the blogger not shown any photos at all, instead of showing these photos the way he has. But, then, it would have been worthless — which is what I think it is now anyway.

 

_______________

Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

 

[Fireboy]

I've got a mix of M10 converted to BW and MM1 images. When comparing test shots there are slight differences in shadow details - however, the user experience of the M10 is so so so much better than the M9, M9M experience. And the results I get from the M10 are great.

 

M10 + 50 APO Summicron

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSsMGiBDn0t

 

MM1 + 50 SUmmilux e46 pre-asph

https://www.instagram.com/p/BO-t_g3gzTE

Edited April 16, 2017 by Fireboy

[Mr Fjeld]

I've got a mix of M10 converted to BW and MM1 images. When comparing test shots there are slight differences in shadow details - however, the user experience of the M10 is so so so much better than the M9, M9M experience. And the results I get from the M10 are great.

 

M10 + 50 APO Summicron

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSsMGiBDn0t

 

MM1 + 50 SUmmilux e46 pre-asph

https://www.instagram.com/p/BO-t_g3gzTE

 

I find that interesting as I would imagine taking the picture itself would be almost identical? I mean the shutter speed and aperture control are the same places so I guess it must be down to the ISO control wheel and a better screen on the back?

 

Btw, lovely portraits!

Edited April 16, 2017 by Mr Fjeld

[mmradman]

I've got a mix of M10 converted to BW and MM1 images. When comparing test shots there are slight differences in shadow details - however, the user experience of the M10 is so so so much better than the M9, M9M experience. And the results I get from the M10 are great.

 

M10 + 50 APO Summicron

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSsMGiBDn0t

 

MM1 + 50 SUmmilux e46 pre-asph

https://www.instagram.com/p/BO-t_g3gzTE

Nice portraits, like the one of the late Tom.

 

Now, comparing first generation full frame against third generation full frame is similar to comparing apples to oranges. To get some measure of difference between Bayer and Monochrom sensor people usually compare M9 vs M9M and M240 vs M246 or M9M vs M246. So far I have seen massive improvements for low light and fine detail photography in dedicated monochromes over their colour counterparts.

 

Couple of interesting articles published in recent past.

 

http://blog.leica-camera.com/2012/10/23/fegor-a-fetishists-guide-to-the-monochrom-part1/

 

http://www.ultrasomething.com/2015/04/sensors-and-sensibility/

 

M10 with colour option only is stand alone in that respect and once M10M is available in 2-3 years we can start this all over again. If you need to compare colour camera agains dedicated monochrome perhaps you don't get B&W photography. By the same token people decry that video in M camera distracts from essence of the RF camera same could be argued about colour.

Edited April 16, 2017 by mmradman

[otto.f]

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I've got a mix of M10 converted to BW and MM1 images. When comparing test shots there are slight differences in shadow details - however, the user experience of the M10 is so so so much better than the M9, M9M experience.

I have found though that for streetphotography and photojournalistic work the startup time M10 is too long. I already missed several decisive moments; 2 seconds is really too slow; the MM1 is considerably faster although not an M7 and down of course. It takes a lot of time to get used to that 2 seconds of the M10, even leaving it on and re-awakening it, is not very fast.

On the other hand, if it is on, it seems to work a bit faster: focusing is easier and thus faster with the new RF

Edited April 17, 2017 by otto.f

[algrove]

This is such a personal choice.  I have owned both and just recently got a slightly used MM1 with Leica sensor fix and CLA. Loving shooting Leica MM again.

 

 

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Edited November 6, 2017 by algrove

[Likaleica]

I have found though that for streetphotography and photojournalistic work the startup time M10 is too long. I already missed several decisive moments; 2 seconds is really too slow; the MM1 is considerably faster although not an M7 and down of course. It takes a lot of time to get used to that 2 seconds of the M10, even leaving it on and re-awakening it, is not very fast.

On the other hand, if it is on, it seems to work a bit faster: focusing is easier and thus faster with the new RF

 

Yes, but the buffering on the MM1, which I love, is much slower than on the M246 or M10, so while the first capture may be delayed with the M10, subsequent captures are really delayed with the MM1.  It's faster to advance film than to wait for the MM1 buffer.  I half press the M10 shutter release while bringing the camera to my eye so that it's pretty much ready to use by the time I compose and focus.

[otto.f]

Yes, but the buffering on the MM1, which I love, is much slower than on the M246 or M10, so while the first capture may be delayed with the M10, subsequent captures are really delayed with the MM1. It's faster to advance film than to wait for the MM1 buffer. I half press the M10 shutter release while bringing the camera to my eye so that it's pretty much ready to use by the time I compose and focus.

Well that’s the flaw in the right place then because in my archives the first capture is mostly the best . Serial killing was never a thing you chose an for M

Edited November 9, 2017 by otto.f

[Likaleica]

Same for me.  Was just responding to the comment about the "startup time M10 is too long."  However, when you really need to make a second exposure right away it can be frustrating to press a dead shutter release. 

[colint544]

The M Monochrom mk1 is, for me, a fantastic camera. It's not perfect by any means but the end result, the file created, can be quite beautiful, especially when the ISO is around the 1600 ISO mark. In really good light, I like to use an ND filter (or just shoot film) so I can keep away from 320 ISO, because it's just too smooth, too clean and sharp for my tastes. 

 

However, the one thing that sometimes annoys me is the glacial buffer. I'm not one who machine-guns a scene (well, you really can't with a Leica M anyway, and that's probably a good thing) but I've definitely missed shots because the red LED on the back is blinking and I can't make a further exposure. It only happens rarely, but it's the thing where, with my M2 or M5, I can always get another shot.

[GaryMulcahey]

 It only happens rarely, but it's the thing where, with my M2 or M5, I can always get another shot.

 

Unless you are trying to fire shot #37 on the roll.  

 

G

Edited November 10, 2017 by GaryMulcahey

[colint544]

Unless you are trying to fire shot #37 on the roll.  

 

G

 

A good point, succinctly put.

[a.noctilux]

The M Monochrom mk1 is,

...

However, the one thing that sometimes annoys me is the glacial buffer. I'm not one who machine-guns a scene (well, you really can't with a Leica M anyway, and that's probably a good thing) but I've definitely missed shots because the red LED on the back is blinking and I can't make a further exposure. It only happens rarely, but it's the thing where, with my M2 or M5, I can always get another shot.

 

Colin,

After how many "frames" that "glacial buffer" occured ?

 

If you remember, was it on "Continous" or "fast singles" ?

[Likaleica]

For me, on single, it's after about 3 exposures.  Maybe 4, depending on the interval between exposures.  Then it seems like quite a pause, but probably is only a matter of seconds.  Nevertheless, it is such a special camera.  "MM1 Shots" is the first post I look at when I log on to this Forum.  Like many people on this Forum I have several cameras.  If I had to choose one I would be torn between the MM1 and the M10.

[colint544]

Colin,

After how many "frames" that "glacial buffer" occured ?

 

If you remember, was it on "Continous" or "fast singles" ?

 

I always have it set to 'S'. Probably after three or four shots is when I hit the buffer. As I say, it's very rare, because I like to choose my moment and just take one frame. But there have been a few times over the years, when I've worked an unfolding scene, and I've hit the buffer. Still wouldn't swap the camera for anything though, it's just one of its quirks.

[a.noctilux]

Thanks.

 

With my Monochrom, I had never experienced this freeze.

Maybe, I let the buffer do it's thing before the next frame.

 

I'll try that quicker to be sure, if one day I need to be quick for 3-4 frames.

That's very short buffer really.

[colint544]

It's definitely not a camera you can machine-gun a scene with.

 

I occasionally have to pull the battery out with mine too, which cures two other glitches. Firstly, the 'card full' message, when the card isn't full. Secondly, when I touch the shutter release to wake the camera up, and it remains unresponsive. Again, both these situations are very rare, but I've kind of accepted these quirks of the camera over the years. 

 

Using my M Monochrom mk, I get something akin to Stockholm syndrome. I end up overlooking the shortcomings, because I've been won round to the cause.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Likaleica]

I agree with Colin.  Definitely not a machine-gun camera, which suits my style of photography and probably one of the reasons I love the camera.