New Leica TL

[Kyros Moutsouris]

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Is this true?

http://leicarumors.com/2016/11/03/this-is-the-new-leica-tl-mirrorless-camera.aspx/

 

 

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[earleygallery]

Massive fail if true.

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[Guest VVJ]

Why would it not be true?  The main question is whether anything changed or not:

 

I heard that there were no technical upgrades to the new TL - just a new firmware. I hope that info was wrong.

 

If this is true... then indeed if fear for the future of the T...

 

Let's wait and see...

[CVickery]

I've been waiting, somewhat impatiently, to see what Leica has planned for the T. I'd be most unhappy if there were no follow up model. If the TL is just a minor refresh, I'm OK with that. It shows a commitment to the line, and I avoid the cost of an upgrade. If it's a major upgrade (i.e. 24mp, + integrated EVF, +IBIS, +...) i"d probably be happy as well, just poorer. What I'd rather not see is something in between...enough improvements that make me want to upgrade, but unwilling to lay out the cash.

[tom0511]

I think it shows Leica commits to the TL system, but I do not expect something which makes me want to upgrade. I will probably wait for the "real" update in 1 or 2 years. Until then I will happily take images with my "old" T.

[bernie.lcf]

I'd say: this is simply a Leica T titanium - everything else is unchanged.

 

Fits their strategy perfectly.

[can-photo]

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I think the same as Bernie, they have done exactly with q titanium and no one seemed to complain about it.

 

It just needs more time as the current mode, is perfectly fine

[Kyros Moutsouris]

I'd say: this is simply a Leica T titanium - everything else is unchanged.

 

Fits their strategy perfectly.

I agree that it looks mostly a special edition rather than the next generation. Probably with firmware 1.6 with minor enhancements.

 

 

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[bencoyote]

I'd say: this is simply a Leica T titanium - everything else is unchanged.

 

Fits their strategy perfectly.

 

Why do you assume that it is the same internally?

 

You can put different electronics and a different sensor in exactly the same case. Think about how little the M's case design has changed over the years. Keep the case and UI practically the same and refresh the electronics as necessary.

 

Some changes that I would not be surprised to see if this rumor is in fact true:

1. upgrade the USB to USB-C from micro-USB. Higher voltage, will make it easier to charge a 7.4v battery. They won't have to bump the voltage up from 5V to ~8.2V using a DC-DC converter.
2. upgrade the WiFi chip to one which operates in newer modes. The IP stack also needs to be upgraded to one that takes IPv6. Asia is a big market for Leica and it is becoming increasingly important for them to support IPv6.
3. upgrade the sensor to one which has slightly better performance. I wouldn't expect more resolution but I think it is reasonably likely to see either higher DR or lower noise at high ISOs, however I would expect improvements there to be modest. ___BUT___
4. I would bet that the sensor's upgrade actually ends up having a higher live-view readout rate. This would not be directly user visible but I think that this would enable them to use more sophisticated tricks doing AF. I have long suspected that the DFD that Leica licensed from Panasonic for the SL couldn't be done on the T due not because of inadequacy of the lenses but either because of inadequate sensor readout speed or a processor which wasn't up to the task of keeping up with the data stream.
5. I also think that the higher sensor readout rate would enable more or better video modes. So while I don't think that the TL will be as good as the SL for video, I think that some of the gap in performance will decrease.
6. Other more advanced video modes and higher speed sensor readout will probably require a higher performance processor and possibly one with more RAM
7. The SD card slot's performance will also need to improve to keep up withe the higher data rate for video modes.
8. The internal drive which you can use instead of a SD card has been too slow to keep up with the burst mode of the camera and IIRC couldn't keep up with video. I expect that this will be improved along with the performance of the processor.
9. I bet the T and the TL will share the same firmware load and that the TL will have hardware that has some capabilities that the T doesn't. I kind of think that when we T owners install version 1.6 the size of the internal storage will be a tiny bit smaller than it was with 1.5.1 because I think that the real reason that it has that larger internal storage space is so that the firmware can grow over time. 

[brill64]

maybe something along the lines of M8 to M8.2 which included, amongst other things a saphire glass screen or M8 to M9, which included a cropped to full-frame sensor within the same body form?

[digitalfx]

I'd say: this is simply a Leica T titanium - everything else is unchanged.

 

Fits their strategy perfectly.

 

 

if this is the case, Leica is seriously in trouble. If they can't improve this camera, they are completely out of touch.

[bernie.lcf]

They have been doing this for centuries: repainting existing cameras at a premium price

...typically towards the end of a product line to get rid of parts or whatever. In earlier days they would at least have body parts in titanium, but the Q has shown that nowadays it would be a simply paint job.

[cccaaarrr]

May be just change the name and color, just like X2 to XE. Leica is alway in this way, that's very Leica style, haha

[Ruz]

still hoping that they're going to improve the sensor and the autofocus

[Ivar B]

I bought the Leica T as a supplement to my SL a few days ago. I have not had the time to test it extensively, but so far I am happy and I am sure that the camera will serve me well.

 

Reading many of the posts here, I see that at times there is a heavy focus on what is wrong with the camera and why a replacement is needed.

 

I will perhaps encounter some problems in the future, but could anyone explain what the major faults are and why a replacement is needed?

 

My first digital M was the M8 - many years ago. Looking back at older files tells me that quality for many (most?) users still is more than good enough. Even if there are new generations coming all the time, this does not mean that outgoing models are crap.

[robert blu]

 

Why do you assume that it is the same internally?

 

You can put different electronics and a different sensor in exactly the same case. Think about how little the M's case design has changed over the years. Keep the case and UI practically the same and refresh the electronics as necessary.

 

Some changes that I would not be surprised to see if this rumor is in fact true:

1. upgrade the USB to USB-C from micro-USB. Higher voltage, will make it easier to charge a 7.4v battery. They won't have to bump the voltage up from 5V to ~8.2V using a DC-DC converter.
2. upgrade the WiFi chip to one which operates in newer modes. The IP stack also needs to be upgraded to one that takes IPv6. Asia is a big market for Leica and it is becoming increasingly important for them to support IPv6.
3. upgrade the sensor to one which has slightly better performance. I wouldn't expect more resolution but I think it is reasonably likely to see either higher DR or lower noise at high ISOs, however I would expect improvements there to be modest. ___BUT___
4. I would bet that the sensor's upgrade actually ends up having a higher live-view readout rate. This would not be directly user visible but I think that this would enable them to use more sophisticated tricks doing AF. I have long suspected that the DFD that Leica licensed from Panasonic for the SL couldn't be done on the T due not because of inadequacy of the lenses but either because of inadequate sensor readout speed or a processor which wasn't up to the task of keeping up with the data stream.
5. I also think that the higher sensor readout rate would enable more or better video modes. So while I don't think that the TL will be as good as the SL for video, I think that some of the gap in performance will decrease.
6. Other more advanced video modes and higher speed sensor readout will probably require a higher performance processor and possibly one with more RAM
7. The SD card slot's performance will also need to improve to keep up withe the higher data rate for video modes.
8. The internal drive which you can use instead of a SD card has been too slow to keep up with the burst mode of the camera and IIRC couldn't keep up with video. I expect that this will be improved along with the performance of the processor.
9. I bet the T and the TL will share the same firmware load and that the TL will have hardware that has some capabilities that the T doesn't. I kind of think that when we T owners install version 1.6 the size of the internal storage will be a tiny bit smaller than it was with 1.5.1 because I think that the real reason that it has that larger internal storage space is so that the firmware can grow over time. 

 

 

I personally like the concept and shape of the T and I can accept a (good) external EVF. If the new version keeps shape and concept and has internal improvements, electronic and firmware it would be very interesting. Unfortunately I'm afraid that keeping the same shape will not allow to have a self sensor cleaning system...which worries me (I'm not very good in delicate manual operation )

robert

PS: but these are all thinking and wishes, Leica give us a sign 

Edited November 5, 2016 by robert blu

[Belle123]

I bought the Leica T as a supplement to my SL a few days ago. I have not had the time to test it extensively, but so far I am happy and I am sure that the camera will serve me well.

 

Reading many of the posts here, I see that at times there is a heavy focus on what is wrong with the camera and why a replacement is needed.

 

I will perhaps encounter some problems in the future, but could anyone explain what the major faults are and why a replacement is needed?

 

My first digital M was the M8 - many years ago. Looking back at older files tells me that quality for many (most?) users still is more than good enough. Even if there are new generations coming all the time, this does not mean that outgoing models are crap.

Ditto ditto ditto!! I have two T cameras, M and a Q. One of the T cameras converted to infrared. Love it! There are a lot of critics, and yet for me the T has always been a favorite. I didn't buy it to be my main camera, but for convenience. It's not an M or a Q and I don't expect it to be. Frankly it surprised me how much I liked it. Maybe coming from an M, and still the M is my main camera, I appreciate it more for what it is rather than what it isn't.

[jevidon]

If true, and leicarumors.com  has been pretty reliable in the past, I'd assume it has the 24 mgpxl sensor, faster upload/download times, improved wifi, especially an improved iPhone remote app.and perhaps a few other minor features.

Apparently, the wished for EVF is absent which I'd expect. Otherwise the pricing would be much higher and inch into the next tier of offerings. But more basically, the T is unique with the once piece milled all metal body and the addition of the EVF would probably require the addition of a second module not to mention an increase in size. I know there are those who think the T is strange and a marketing failure, but Leica seems to think otherwise as do I who finds the T to be a really nice camera to own, feels good in the hands, easy to set up and change setups and a fine image maker.

Edited November 6, 2016 by jevidon

[tom0511]

I bought the Leica T as a supplement to my SL a few days ago. I have not had the time to test it extensively, but so far I am happy and I am sure that the camera will serve me well.

 

Reading many of the posts here, I see that at times there is a heavy focus on what is wrong with the camera and why a replacement is needed.

 

I will perhaps encounter some problems in the future, but could anyone explain what the major faults are and why a replacement is needed?

 

My first digital M was the M8 - many years ago. Looking back at older files tells me that quality for many (most?) users still is more than good enough. Even if there are new generations coming all the time, this does not mean that outgoing models are crap.

 

I have been using the T for quite a while now as a smaller complement and use of longer lenses to my M and S and EM1.

Dont worry, the T works just fine as it is and is fun to use. I think besides the excellent (while not cheap) lenses a strength of the T is the natural color and tones.

I wouldnt mind some more MP or weather sealing but I really dont understand why some people who believe the T is "dated".

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[papimuzo]

 

Why do you assume that it is the same internally?

 

You can put different electronics and a different sensor in exactly the same case. Think about how little the M's case design has changed over the years. Keep the case and UI practically the same and refresh the electronics as necessary.

 

Some changes that I would not be surprised to see if this rumor is in fact true:

 

[...............................................................]

 

 

I hope that your cristall ball is the right one!! I agree with all your points and would be happy if only the half would appear.

 

Good pictures.