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Q or M with one lens


tifh21

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Posted the same thing on the M part of the group and as expected most of them suggested the M, now i want to hear your side before i decide:)

 

Jjust a bit of a background. I have a cropped dslr and a fuji setup and I am very happy with them but i decided I want to try/get a leica. Ive been wanting one for years and i think now is the right time. I have an upcoming trip to Japan on february so I will have enough time to get used to the new camera if ever.

 

Anyway, one of the reasons people suggest an M instead of the Q is bec it can change lenses. But for someone who's planning on just having one lens anyway on the M would you still recommend that?

 

plan on using the camera as my everyday and my trip camera. I wont sell my fuji or dslr

 

*planning on not spending too much and i got a good price quote from a Q seller...

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You are familiar with DSLRs - rangefinder is an interesting and fascinating thing, but a little bit special and without autofocus. And if you dont want to buy afterwards more than 1 lens I would recommend the Leica Q.

Edited by HeinzX
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The question is hard to answer because it depends mostly on what and how you shoot. I used to bring a large DSLR and hefty lenses on trips and daily shooting and still do, although I own the Q and use it a lot also. So the correct but rather useless answer would be: it depends. Some thoughts, but please note that they are my thoughts, everyone is different in his or her shooting:

  • As Heinz pointed out, the M is a rangefinder and does not have auto focus. This differs substantially from a DSLR, but can be nice.
  • My suggestion would be to rent one for a week or so, with the lens you plan to use, and give it a try. That said, you could try the Q as well before buying. Trying out for a week is a recommendation I always make to everyone thinking about a non trivial camera purchase.
  • The Q is not a rangefinder, rather a "mirrorless" camera with EVF, you see what the sensor "sees". It does have autofocus, and it is very, very fast but also sometimes a bit hard to really nail the focus exactly where you want it (but that is the same for my DSLR). You can of course switch to manual focus, which is also very good (better than on the DSLR).
  • I do not know the image quality of the M too well. The Q is very good, but when I want the very best IQ I bring my Nikon D810 and a top of the bill lens, still the best full frame IQ imho. I bought the Q because it is nice and small yet sturdy, very good and 28mm is my type of focal length. Again: try it out and see if you like it.
  • There is of course a huge price difference between the Q and the M + lens. You have to really, really want the M I would say. You mention on planning not to spend too much. That seems a bit contradictory to buying a M, but "too much" is of course relative.
  • The Q has a fixed 28mm lens. This can be restrictive, but on the other hand it can also force you to get out of your comfort zone and actually end up with more appealing images. The latter is what happened to me when just having the Q with me. But I like 28mm a lot, much better than 35 or 50mm. What I often miss and cannot make up for with changing position is longer ranges (70-100mm). But this is very, very personal, and I still have my DSLR.

 A somewhat chaotic list... Anyway, good luck and above all have fun while making up your mind! 

Edited by Bart van Hofwegen
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I've recently gone through the same decision of whether M + 1 lens or Q for an upcoming trip to the US and ended up happily with the Q. 

Like the previous posters pointed out, it's unique to everyone but for me it essentially boiled down to:

 

1) I'd like a compact (difference in weight between Q and M+28summicron is the difference between hanging around the neck comfortably or not for me, not that I hang it around my neck) travel cam with a wide-ish prime.

2) Don't want to replace my Nikon FF gear with Leica ones (i.e. I'll still use it to do my UWA and telephoto stuff)

3) Don't want the temptation for M glass or spend *too much* (M+28 summicron is much more expensive than the Q, let alone the summilux)

4) I like 28mm.

 

I think point 4 is important. Bearing in mind that Q crops phenominally well so if only 1 in 5 of your pictures are ~50mm then you'll be fine but maybe not if every single picture needs to be significantly cropped. I think generally speaking if your 1 lens with the M is either a 24, 28 or 35, Q (which is ~26mm not 28mm) will be fantastic but if it's a 50 then it could be a little awkward at times (but not impossible). 

 

Anyway, I hope that is vaguely helpful!

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thanks guys:)

 

i'll try to answer the posted questions

-- first unfortunately in our country we cant rent lenses or cameras like the leica

-- regarding the manual focus, it's ok since ill only be using it as my fun camera i'm planning on keeping my dslr and my fuji or at least my dslr for my macros.

-- not spending too much means maximum the price of the m240 (secondhand body) and a good 35mm lens (reason why i specified just one lens:) )

-- ive owned the fuji x70 so i know im fine with just having a 28mm

-- for fun I mostly shoot macros and actually anything that catches my attention. i also love taking photos of my pets and the pets of my friends.

 

truth be told, im leaning towards the Q esp for my upcoming trip, it's just that the idea or challenge of just using manual focus and having the "classic" M sort of appeals to me too. :) and I feel like (at least i hope so) the m240 will cure my gas for a long time. (might sell the fuji if i end up liking the leica more and keeping my dslr)

i have a canon film rangefinder and i tried it a few times and i like it fine. :)

Edited by tifh21
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Think I responded under same question under the M forum. I have both, Q and M.....and also T. The Q I admire, but when I really want the absolute most out of my photos I take the M. There are many advantages to both, and I won't compare to the T here. The Q is fast and light with very quick and accurate focus and extremely quiet. Marvelous IQ. But I can always do a little better with the M but not as fast. The M takes more skill too, more demanding of the photographer. And for some, that slowing down, is a plus in the results. So if I were to ask myself, would I keep my M or my Q, would be the M. The only thing about the Q that would make me give up my M is for travel. The Q wins for being lightweight, and fast. And I could be happy with it as my only camera if that was a priority. Actually, I would be happy with it as my only camera, regardless. So, you just need to decide. Try both out.

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Think I responded under same question under the M forum. I have both, Q and M.....and also T. The Q I admire, but when I really want the absolute most out of my photos I take the M. There are many advantages to both, and I won't compare to the T here. The Q is fast and light with very quick and accurate focus and extremely quiet. Marvelous IQ. But I can always do a little better with the M but not as fast. The M takes more skill too, more demanding of the photographer. And for some, that slowing down, is a plus in the results. So if I were to ask myself, would I keep my M or my Q, would be the M. The only thing about the Q that would make me give up my M is for travel. The Q wins for being lightweight, and fast. And I could be happy with it as my only camera if that was a priority. Actually, I would be happy with it as my only camera, regardless. So, you just need to decide. Try both out.

+1

I too own both M and Q and share 100% billinghambaglady opinions

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Just stating the obvious, but the Q and the M are very different camera. If we put the lens choice aside, the Q has an EVF and autofocus whereas the M has an OVF and rangefinder focusing. This makes the photography experience very different, so the question is maybe that: what kind of experience are you after ?

 

Another comment is that, if I understand well, you are planning to take three cameras, from different systems. I think using very different interfaces can be a challenge. I have both a FF DSLR system (Canon plus some nice L and Zeiss lenses) and an M9 with three compact lenses, and I do not think I would want to have both with me on such a trip, not only because of bulk and weight, but also because it is a bit distracting to switch between the DSLR way and the RF way. I can shoot both cameras in the same time (did it for a wedding, and it was useful to have both systems with me), but I found it takes some extra attention, so not sure I would want that on a trip in a different country and where I want to take nice pictures, and also experience the place. But that is just me. :-)

 

Btw, I went to Japan twice, and loved it. It is really a fantastic place for photography. Enjoy the trip!

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The question is hard to answer because it depends mostly on what and how you shoot. I used to bring a large DSLR and hefty lenses on trips and daily shooting and still do, although I own the Q and use it a lot also. So the correct but rather useless answer would be: it depends. Some thoughts, but please note that they are my thoughts, everyone is different in his or her shooting:

 

  • As Heinz pointed out, the M is a rangefinder and does not have auto focus. This differs substantially from a DSLR, but can be nice.
  • My suggestion would be to rent one for a week or so, with the lens you plan to use, and give it a try. That said, you could try the Q as well before buying. Trying out for a week is a recommendation I always make to everyone thinking about a non trivial camera purchase.
  • The Q is not a rangefinder, rather a "mirrorless" camera with EVF, you see what the sensor "sees". It does have autofocus, and it is very, very fast but also sometimes a bit hard to really nail the focus exactly where you want it (but that is the same for my DSLR). You can of course switch to manual focus, which is also very good (better than on the DSLR).
  • I do not know the image quality of the M too well. The Q is very good, but when I want the very best IQ I bring my Nikon D810 and a top of the bill lens, still the best full frame IQ imho. I bought the Q because it is nice and small yet sturdy, very good and 28mm is my type of focal length. Again: try it out and see if you like it.
  • There is of course a huge price difference between the Q and the M + lens. You have to really, really want the M I would say. You mention on planning not to spend too much. That seems a bit contradictory to buying a M, but "too much" is of course relative.
  • The Q has a fixed 28mm lens. This can be restrictive, but on the other hand it can also force you to get out of your comfort zone and actually end up with more appealing images. The latter is what happened to me when just having the Q with me. But I like 28mm a lot, much better than 35 or 50mm. What I often miss and cannot make up for with changing position is longer ranges (70-100mm). But this is very, very personal, and I still have my DSLR.
 A somewhat chaotic list... Anyway, good luck and above all have fun while making up your mind!

 

I would say more or less the same.

I have a nikon D800 with a lot of primes, I took it to the Dubai alomg with the Q... and I almost did not use the D800 at all except a half dozen frames with a zeiss 15mm on. The Q did all the rest.

 

Here: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/xata/album/872498

 

But it depends on where you go and what you intend to shoot...

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hey, no:) i wasnt planning on bringing 3 systems to my trip. I meant i was planning on keeping the 3 or at least 2 systems so the M or the Q wont be my only system --- explaining i guess in a way that having a limited focal length or less focal options from the Q will not be an issue or problem in general, and also practicing with the M wont be a problem if i go with that because my other systems will still have af if ever i need it.

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if 28 is fine, no need for another camera.

q even got "macro" unlike m lenses.

i would prefer it being a 35....i could do almost anything with it for my needs. but Leica probably knows that :) and wants to make some money.

environmental full body portraits are ok on 28. street too. macro doable, kind off.

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hey, no:) i wasnt planning on bringing 3 systems to my trip. I meant i was planning on keeping the 3 or at least 2 systems so the M or the Q wont be my only system --- explaining i guess in a way that having a limited focal length or less focal options from the Q will not be an issue or problem in general, and also practicing with the M wont be a problem if i go with that because my other systems will still have af if ever i need it.

Another suggestion. Get the Q now. Take on your trip. If still interested in an M, sell the Q afterwards without much, if any, loss. As someone else stated, getting into an M is significantly more. Unless you find a good used one, the body alone is more than the Q. Adding an M lens is significant, even used. For travel, the Q will not disappoint. If you haven't shot much with 28mm, it takes some getting used to. With my M, have a 28 among my lens arsenal but is by far not my favorite. At first I was uncomfortable with that focal length on the Q, but with practice I learned to like it. The other thing about the M, hardly anyone settles on one lens. I could but only because been shooting with an M for over 20 years and have lenses I have favored, and the lens I would choose is the older version of the Summicron 50mm for reasons I won't get into here. It takes time and money to find what really works and it is a personal choice on lenses, not a matter of one lens being the best. They all have unique characteristics. So if you are truly concerned about a budget, the Q is a better choice.

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thanks you:) very much for all your help.

 

i think for my trip i'll get a Q then when i come back (if i still want) i can trade it or sell it and get an M240:)

 

unfortunately i can't afford to buy both unless i sell my fuji and dslr:)

 

I agree with the sentiment that you should just get the Q and sell it if you don't like it. Unless you're loaded and money is not a factor, why spend the extra money on the M, an interchangable lens camera when you only intend on using one lens?
 
I bought the Q earlier this year on my trip to Europe on my first stop in London at Leica Mayfair. Thought I'd try it and if I didn't like it I would sell it, as I already had the Sony A7 which is fantastic with its line of Zeiss lenses.
 
My experience with the Q however, is that it is a joy to use. So much so that I've sold my A7 and lenses. The images that came out of the A7/Zeiss lenses were great, but I never enjoyed using the manual focus/aperture controls. The Q is different and I love all the manual controls and it is suprisingly a tool that I enjoy using. A joy to use. That's how I'd describe it. Everytime I wanted to take a camera out when travelling the Q would be it.
 
Fast AF, superb optics, but with great manual controls when you needed it. 
 
Sometimes I really do miss that little bit of extra reach (if Leica made a Q in 35mm I'd swap mine for that). But for my purposes, which is mostly just travel photography, family snapshots, web stuff, 28mm focal length is great and 24mp is enough for me to crop but maintain an good level of resolution for my needs.
 
On a side note, I bought my Q for 2,900 GBP. Just saw that Leica Mayfair have pushed through the price increase to 3,570 GBP! That's the price of brexit for you.
 
Getting it now to familiarise yourself with it before your trip is also a great idea.
 
Tip: The handgrip is a must. Downside is that it does increase the weight and size. (I haven't tried the thumbs up so you may also want to consider that as an alternative).
 
Also, when you road test it before your trip, play around with the OIS... the word on this seems mixed, but in most circumstances where you have enough light, you are better off with it turned off was what I found.
Edited by Sojourner
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