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For four years I have waited for this day which has not come


M28

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That is what they thought in 1970, in the 1990ies, and obviously now - sit and be surprised ;)

Well I would certainly like to be, and knowing your relationship with Leica I won't argue the point. Looking backwards in time, the pace of innovation slowed a lot when we look at the time frame going from m3 to m4 to m6 to m7 with some stops along the way. Anyway, I sit and wait and meanwhile enjoy my film M (A and 4) and the Q. Ready to dive back in whenever.

 

Thanks for the response!

 

 

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Nikon has 36 MP.  Canon has a 50.

 

Consider my Nikon 24 and 36 are not that much different. Consider we are speaking area, not linear, MP has to be 4X to make an image twice as big.

 

Wall projection is not viewed up close so it need not be super sharp like an 8x10.

 

Stitching a panorama will get you both sharp and large.  Buy proper equipment.

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That is what they thought in 1970, in the 1990ies, and obviously now -  sit and be surprised ;)

I agree, I pay attention to a lot of science for work and just like coating and then practical aspherical lens elements revolutionized lens designs, I expect that within a few years we will start seeing nanotexturing and metamaterials being applied to lens designs. When that happens many of the design constraints that have hindered us will just go away. I don't know how far it can be pushed but considering some of the numbers for metamaterials that I've seen an APO-Noctilux that is the size and about the weight of a Summarit doesn't seem out of the question. https://www.caltech.edu/news/new-thin-flat-lenses-focus-light-sharply-curved-lenses-46743 The real trick is getting the nanotexturing to work across a broad enough range of frequencies to be useful for photographic applications. There was a recent advance in this area which might make it possible but I can't seem to find the paper right now.

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I agree, I pay attention to a lot of science for work and just like coating and then practical aspherical lens elements revolutionized lens designs, I expect that within a few years we will start seeing nanotexturing and metamaterials being applied to lens designs. When that happens many of the design constraints that have hindered us will just go away. I don't know how far it can be pushed but considering some of the numbers for metamaterials that I've seen an APO-Noctilux that is the size and about the weight of a Summarit doesn't seem out of the question. https://www.caltech.edu/news/new-thin-flat-lenses-focus-light-sharply-curved-lenses-46743 The real trick is getting the nanotexturing to work across a broad enough range of frequencies to be useful for photographic applications. There was a recent advance in this area which might make it possible but I can't seem to find the paper right now.

I wonder whether Leica is paying attention to flat lens technology. I will assume that Japanese makers will be leading in this (being related to chip manufacturing process).

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It seems as if Leica is looking for a much broader source of funding then any of the M/Q/T/S/SL segment could ever provide.

Surely they lost money in their T/S sectors and probably SL and Q as well ... Blackstone was not happy with them

( which sent out the wrong signals ).

... so now smartphones and other gadgets shall provide what's needed most

funding & possibly new investors... which in turn alienates their most loyal followers in the M segment,

people like me who stuck with them throughout the 80ties and who want to see some sort of reward ( innovations ),

but how foremost  do not want their expensive cameras

associated with cheap trinkets.

How long Leica can hold on and provide us with the illusion of a healthy $365m company

is to be seen ...

cloud "2000 and nine" we have all been sitting on seems to be steadily disappearing from the horizon ...

Edited by Mark Ebert
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With all due respect, the M line is done. There will over time be marginal advances to bring new buyers in but Leica likely believes there is nothing left to improve where the return on investment from their perspective is worthwhile. The SL is their new direction and it will eventually grow into a MF competitive platform and then the Q and T are the lesser cost alternatives. Professionals to be catered to are the SL and S users. Can't say I blame them. When you look at the M how much more aside from tweaking is there really left to do? I don't believe they have an interest in going to full frame 50mp sensors or a curved one or whatever. It is what it is and aside from the occasional refresh the focus of development is not the M

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

The S and the SL will not fly high. I mean, they are nice, but too expensive and conservative to attract non-Leica users. The S lenses have reliability problems, which for a professional system is a deal breaker, and the system suffers from more powerful proposals like the Phase One digital backs or cheaper options like the new Fuji. Plus, medium format needs movements and Leica has no tilt/shift lenses. So far the SL has been bought to a great deal by Leica users that are invested in M lenses and want something up to date. Others go down the Sony route. I hope they won't make the mistake to consider the M a done deal, because the M system is what Leica is about. The mantra of M-D/pure photography won't keep them alive. The majority of photographers cares more about getting the shot than what they get the shot with. 

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 I hope they won't make the mistake to consider the M a done deal, because the M system is what Leica is about. The mantra of M-D/pure photography won't keep them alive. The majority of photographers cares more about getting the shot than what they get the shot with. 

 

The rangefinder market is, and always will be small and kept alive by a dedicated few and a constant drip of photographers seeking something different from the mainstream.

 

It is still however, an evolutionary dead end that has very limited potential for improvement.  Despite the company resurrection with the M8 (or rather you could look at it as a wake up call that extinction was around the corner without urgent change) the M series will always be a minority product, no matter how iconic it is regarded. 

 

Photographers no more drive the camera market than car buyers drive the motor trade ...... we are all led by the nose through marketing and hype to believe we need something bigger, better and flashier or we are left behind by progress. 

 

If we all bought the cameras we actually NEEDED for the uses that we put our images to the camera industry would expire overnight. 

Edited by thighslapper
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I have been waiting patiently for Photokina 2016 to see the new M and to order it.

It was no secret that Leica would not announce a new M at photokina. Or any new camera for that matter.

 

A glorified Polaroid camera.

Actually a glorified Fuji camera.

 

But then, so what? As I have said here before: If Leica doesn’t announce the new M at photokina, they will announce it at a later date.

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The rangefinder market is, and always will be small and kept alive by a dedicated few and a constant drip of photographers seeking something different from the mainstream.

 

It is still however, an evolutionary dead end that has very limited potential for improvement.  Despite the company resurrection with the M8 (or rather you could look at it as a wake up call that extinction was around the corner without urgent change) the M series will always be a minority product, no matter how iconic it is regarded. 

 

Photographers no more drive the camera market than car buyers drive the motor trade ...... we are all led by the nose through marketing and hype to believe we need something bigger, better and flashier or we are left behind by progress. 

 

If we all bought the cameras we actually NEEDED for the uses that we put our images to the camera industry would expire overnight. 

 

 

I beg to differ. Since few years the M is already not anymore just about the rangefinder. They have already introduced live view, video and EVF! There is plenty of room for further development by making a good quality compact camera dedicated to the use of their traditional M lenses, which are the heart of the system, not the other way around. I don't know what you NEED, but I make money out of photography and I NEED to deliver what the market asks, meaning BIG prints, files with high dynamic range and so on and so forth. Plus I am getting older and lazy, so the assistance of the present technology is very welcome. You can rest assured that Phase One would not sell 30/40 thousands dollars digital backs if there was no need for them. As you made the car market comparison, look at Mini and how many cars they sold when the logic would tell you that you would not need to spend three times more for a city car when you can get a cheaper Hyundai. What is the heritage of the original mini? The name and the shape. At the end of the day also the Mini is German owned by BMW :-)

Edited by Giulio Zanni
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The Leica M10 aka M240 was announced 4 years ago and released about 3.5 years ago. I was disappointed that it was such a minor improvement on the M9 and yet the price escalated dramatically.

I was delighted at the arrival of the M APO-Summicron 50mm f2. and waited for a much improved iso camera that was not the M240 with a big sensor full of megapixels so that I could see wall sized photographs using my projector.

 

I have been waiting patiently for Photokina 2016 to see the new M and to order it. and what did I get?

 

I got offered a sofort

 

A glorified Polaroid camera.

 

WHY, WHY LEICA ? Why do you do this to me?

 

You used PHOTOKINA to announce a camera that was used primarily to photograph nudie shots that you never had to send to the labs for developing.

 

Champion move.

 

You made the conscious decision to waste 4 years waiting for something that was never guaranteed or even so much as implied by anyone from Leica.

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[... snip profound statements ...]

If we all bought the cameras we actually NEEDED for the uses that we put our images to the camera industry would expire overnight. 

 

If there were a walkway of camera/lens fame your statement  should be cast in gold.

.

Edited by pico
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The M9 new in Australia cost $7500 and then just before the M240 got released price dropped to $5500.

 

The M240 in Australia cost $10500 and 4 years on cost $8500

 

The range finder on the M240 was much improved I concur.

 

The M9 I loved but always found that in a dark restaurant shooting with my 35mm at f1.4 summilux I had to really concentrate to get the focus on children's eyes. Yes difficult lens under those conditions. Narrow focus depth field. Yes. The difference on the m240 would have been marginal.

 

Thus my requirement for the M240 to be significantly greater.

 

Look don't misunderstand me. I want to buy finally my one Leica for life and anyway I don't even have the money for it right now.

However I took it humbly when the M240 was announced and there are many posts where I certainly stated it was a brilliant camera. I might even buy one second hand and use it with much happiness.

 

Waiting 4 years for the M240 to drop in price has been a long time thus the disappointment, but not grief.

The way that camera has held its value on the second hand market is absolutely phenomenal.

There was much humour in my post which perhaps my northern Leica buddies did not pick up.

 

The M9 or M240 which one sold better? I suspect the M9 but am I correct I don't know. The M9 put Leica back on the map. Without the M9 Leica would have never been able to achieve the greatness it has and put itself squarely in no 1 place for cameras. The SL is just unbelievably good and if it was smaller and less heavy I would take the leap just for that EVF with Leica m lenses.

 

My plan was to buy a used m240 till the next iteration presented itself on the used market.

 

Let's hope they announce something.

 

Until then where are the sofort pics ?

So the real disappointment is that you wanted to buy a used M240 and the prices haven't fallen, in part because there is no new M to replace the M240?

Even though the M240 allegedly had nothing to offer better than the M9?   And you expect sympathy here?

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