lct Posted October 16, 2016 Share #201 Posted October 16, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) To me personally the M is much more practical. It slides comfortably in the tiniest of spaces in my bag. The A7 takes much more space due to the protruding EVF and handgrip. I know that because I had them both at the same time. I prefer the shorter design of the Sony but it is a matter of tastes of course. I just wanted to show that it is possible to get thinner FF digital bodes than the current M240. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jdlaing Posted October 16, 2016 Share #202 Posted October 16, 2016 I prefer the shorter design of the Sony but it is a matter of tastes of course. I just wanted to show that it is possible to get thinner FF digital bodes than the current M240. Sony register distance 18mm Leica M register distance 27mm Plus the minimum dimensions of the rangefinder mechanism sets the thickness. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted October 16, 2016 Share #203 Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Sony register distance 18mm Leica M register distance 27mm Plus the minimum dimensions of the rangefinder mechanism sets the thickness. Certainly a smaller body would need re-engineering, but the overall body can be thinner than dimensions at the mount. Leica needs 2 new M chassis: RF version reduced in size and weight, and a "Barnack" with EVF and no RF, which would be smaller yet. There would be no need to discontinue the current chassis: call it "the Classic" LOL Edited October 16, 2016 by uhoh7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 16, 2016 Share #204 Posted October 16, 2016 I prefer the shorter design of the Sony but it is a matter of tastes of course. I just wanted to show that it is possible to get thinner FF digital bodes than the current M240. Have you notice the thickness of the Sony-M adapters? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 16, 2016 Share #205 Posted October 16, 2016 Have you notice the thickness of the Sony-M adapters? You might wish to take a look at my post above on this point. As far as my S version is concerned, the Sony body feels as thinner as it looks here actually. At least to me... YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted October 16, 2016 Share #206 Posted October 16, 2016 .... the Sony body feels as thinner as it looks here actually. At least to me... YMMV. particularly the bulging part on the right hand side. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #207 Posted October 17, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) You might wish to take a look at my post above on this point. As far as my S version is concerned, the Sony body feels as thinner as it looks here actually. At least to me... YMMV. Yes. In theory, if the register distance would be 7 mm the body would be 10 mm thinner again. As Pop points out, the thinness of the Sony makes it necessary to add a huge handgrip in order to be able to hold it at all. The ergonomics are rubbish. Not only is it too thin, the left hand side is too short making any kind of lefthanded hold for stability impossible. One can only grip the lens, which makes it easy to disturb focus on manual lenses. The handgrip bulge makes the shutter button only reachable by contorting the finger, which is tiring in the long run and will affect stability as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 17, 2016 Share #208 Posted October 17, 2016 One stupid LUF member likes « rubbish ergonomics » then at least... Always glad to read moderate opinions on this good old forum. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2016 Share #209 Posted October 17, 2016 One stupid LUF member likes « rubbish ergonomics » then at least... Always glad to read moderate opinions on this good old forum.Take it easy: http://camerasize.com/compare/#551,678 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #210 Posted October 17, 2016 Note that both those cameras have the release button in the correct place Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 17, 2016 Share #211 Posted October 17, 2016 I prefer the shorter design of the Sony but it is a matter of tastes of course. I just wanted to show that it is possible to get thinner FF digital bodes than the current M240. Giving room for a mechanism like the autofocus adapter? Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2016 Share #212 Posted October 17, 2016 As Pop points out, the thinness of the Sony makes it necessary to add a huge handgrip in order to be able to hold it at all. The ergonomics are rubbish. Not only is it too thin, the left hand side is too short making any kind of lefthanded hold for stability impossible. One can only grip the lens, which makes it easy to disturb focus on manual lenses. The handgrip bulge makes the shutter button only reachable by contorting the finger, which is tiring in the long run and will affect stability as well. You must have very unusually proportioned hands to face such issues. The Sony A7s handle differently to Leica Ms, but they balance very well in my fairly normal hands. Even the very small, thin and gripless RX1 feels good to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #213 Posted October 17, 2016 Whatever else, the position of the rangefinder lever defines the body thickness around and over the mount. There is the frameline connecting mechanism to accommodate as well. If Leica were to slim down the sides of the camera the mount housing would make quite a bulky protrusion. Add a needed grip bulge and there would be little left of the original M shape - it would look nothing like a film M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #214 Posted October 17, 2016 You must have very unusually proportioned hands to face such issues. The Sony A7s handle differently to Leica Ms, but they balance very well in my fairly normal hands. Even the very small, thin and gripless RX1 feels good to me. I don't think my hands are built like Godzilla, but they are glove size 9. The Sony cameras feel quite awkward to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2016 Share #215 Posted October 17, 2016 I don't think my hands are built like Godzilla, but they are glove size 9. The Sony cameras feel quite awkward to me. Interestingly, the left hand side of most digital cameras is greatly reduced from what would've been standard in film days. If you google image search a 5Div or a D810 you might be surprised to find their proportions echoing Sony, albeit within a larger overall footprint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #216 Posted October 17, 2016 Yes. It is something I really dislike, although with AF cameras you can at least grip the lens firmly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2016 Share #217 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Yes. It is something I really dislike, although with AF cameras you can at least grip the lens firmly. I think it's something you would adapt to very quickly. My grip on a 5D or a Sony is very different to that on an M, but, if anything, it's more stable. Edited October 17, 2016 by almoore Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #218 Posted October 17, 2016 What makes you think I have not been using these cameras? I do adapt, obviously, but that does not mean that I think that it is a proper ergonomic design. "Everybody is doing it" is not much of an excuse for the camera makers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2016 Share #219 Posted October 17, 2016 What makes you think I have not been using these cameras? The fact that you suggest it's impossible to get a secure grip and comfortably release the shutter on perfectly well designed cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2016 Share #220 Posted October 17, 2016 I never said impossible, and I disagree on well-designed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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