New Leica M 240 follow-up in 2017 : The speculations.

[Paulus]

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Well, you know how it is – if I knew about a slimmer new M I wouldn’t tell and if I didn’t know there wouldn’t be anything I could tell. In any case this 3.8 mm figure bandied about is not correct, not exactly anyway.

I always thought, that Leica invested much in the current M 240 model and would not abandon it for a smaller model. We talked extensively in posts about the impossibility of a smaller body, one compared with the M6. I thought in those posts the conclusion was, that this smaller Leica M was not  going to happen.

 

The recent rumours gave me some doubt and now you are writing: " In any case this 3.8 mm figure bandied about is not correct, not exactly anyway." What do you mean by:  " not exactly anyway." Is a smaller body on its way?

[otto.f]

As has been said here many times by jaapv and others against complainers about the size of the M240, the bottomplate dimensions of the M's have hardly changed since 1952 or so, except for the M5. So there is no need to change that now either. And people who say now that a smaller M is out of the question are referring to that baseplate I presume. The 'problem' is the protruding lcd-screen in the M240 and up, but reducing this with 3.8mm is way more than necessary, that's all.

Edited November 3, 2016 by otto.f

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[jaapv]

3.8 mm? Given that it is unlikely that there can be a change in thickness , unless there is a complete change in shape by having a protruding "mount box"  and that the width is dictated by holdability, any shrinking of the M would be in height . Thus it seems that we have yet another special edition coming: The M330, "Ronnie Corbett": short, rotund and protruding lenses.

[Mike Rawcs]

A Ronnie Corbett M, I want one. I need one!

[mjh]

I always thought, that Leica invested much in the current M 240 model and would not abandon it for a smaller model. We talked extensively in posts about the impossibility of a smaller body, one compared with the M6. I thought in those posts the conclusion was, that this smaller Leica M was not  going to happen.

It is not a simple task. The protruding mount that some have suggested is out of the question. Even the rather tiny protrusion originally introduced with the M8 required changes to the rangefinder mechanism. All you can do is to slim down every single part of the electronics – the display (is there a slimmer display panel?), the circuit boards etc.. This must not block the dissipation of heat of course, so again, it is not a simple task. Can Leica do it? We will see. And I honestly don’t know when we will see a new model.

 

And btw., even the introduction of a new M would not necessarily imply abandoning the M (Typ 240) or its siblings.

[jaapv]

It is not a simple task. The protruding mount that some have suggested is out of the question. Even the rather tiny protrusion originally introduced with the M8 required changes to the rangefinder mechanism. All you can do is to slim down every single part of the electronics – the display (is there a slimmer display panel?), the circuit boards etc.. This must not block the dissipation of heat of course, so again, it is not a simple task. Can Leica do it? We will see. And I honestly don’t know when we will see a new model.

 

And btw., even the introduction of a new M would not necessarily imply abandoning the M (Typ 240) or its siblings.

Which is why I imagined a protruding  "box".containing the RF mechanism as well.

[Peter H]

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It means affecting the current sales. No company would like to take a hit on current quarter sales due to future product.

Actually, the reverse may well be true.

 

I dealer I know well showed me his stock of Ms and M lenses that people have traded in over the last few months. He says he's never had so Many shelves of used Leica equipment as more customers are switching to other systems.

 

Perhaps if some of them had an idea about what they might expect, they may be prepared to hang on for a while longer.

 

I think this talk of commercial prudence is only one side of the coin. It feels a bit old fashioned too. A more enlightened approach may be good for the company. They don't have to make promises they may not be able to keep, and in fact the more open and less jealously secretive they are in this respect, the more understanding and patient a lot of customers might be.

[edwardkaraa]

Is it the end of the road for Leica?

[edwardkaraa]

Forgot to add a smiley to last post just in case.

 

[jaapv]

Actually, the reverse may well be true.

 

I dealer I know well showed me his stock of Ms and M lenses that people have traded in over the last few months. He says he's never had so Many shelves of used Leica equipment as more customers are switching to other systems.

 

Perhaps if some of them had an idea about what they might expect, they may be prepared to hang on for a while longer.

 

I think this talk of commercial prudence is only one side of the coin. It feels a bit old fashioned too. A more enlightened approach may be good for the company. They don't have to make promises they may not be able to keep, and in fact the more open and less jealously secretive they are in this respect, the more understanding and patient a lot of customers might be.

The other systems may well be SL and Q. I am always quite skeptical about anecdotal evidence, though.

[Peter H]

Is it the end of the road for Leica?

 

 

No.

 

But which road will they follow?

[mjh]

The road ends at the horizon. Until we move forward and notice it stretches on a few miles longer.

[Peter H]

The other systems may well be SL and Q. I am always quite skeptical about anecdotal evidence, though.

 

Indeed. 

 

And my dealer (one of the UK's largest) may misunderstand what is happening. He would know if it were simply a case of switching from Ms to other Leicas. There is some of that happening but it isn't the whole story. And even if it were, it is still disappointing for M users in my opinion.

 

Or I may be fibbing.

 

But I'm not fibbing and I know the dealer well enough to know that he has a pretty good understanding of his business, so anecdotal it may be to you, but is is as valid a point of view as all this "commercial prudence" speculation.

[jaapv]

Oh, I am not saying you don't have a point. There are, however, two considerations. Firstly you may be right, but we are talking about an end-of-production  run camera in all likelyhood.

Secondly, I don't think a new M will trigger a huge wave of upgrades; the present camera is simply too good for that. The sales of the next M will come, I am convinced,mainly from new users, and Leica must take that into account.

[Jeff S]

And btw., even the introduction of a new M would not necessarily imply abandoning the M (Typ 240) or its siblings.

 

 

The earlier 'New M 2016 Speculation' thread is now a year old, 76 pages long, with over 1500 posts, leading to the expectation that Photokina would be the release date....and yet it all boiled down to 2 simple posts made by mjh along the way that indicated that wouldn't happen.

 

I think this quote may turn out to be another mjh gem.

 

Jeff

Edited November 3, 2016 by Jeff S

[Sandokan]

The only thing we have to ask is: what will it be called? M250? M10? M11? And if it goes nowhere slowly, the M25? I would welcome going back to a simply naming structure that followed common sense. M11 for me please. Same shape and size as an M7. Electronic viewfinder but i doubt that, and so it will be optical. Dual would be ideal. Or a viewfinder like the Nikon SP.

 

 

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[Klausb]

Why do you need a new M?

M240 is nearly perfect!

[Klausb]

.... and the M-D is the best one!

Edited November 3, 2016 by Klausb

[adli]

According to my dealer, a new M is in the pipeline and gave a hint that it would be released in the not too far future :-)

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LocalHero1953]

It is not a simple task. The protruding mount that some have suggested is out of the question. Even the rather tiny protrusion originally introduced with the M8 required changes to the rangefinder mechanism. All you can do is to slim down every single part of the electronics – the display (is there a slimmer display panel?), the circuit boards etc.. This must not block the dissipation of heat of course, so again, it is not a simple task. Can Leica do it? We will see. And I honestly don’t know when we will see a new model.

 

And btw., even the introduction of a new M would not necessarily imply abandoning the M (Typ 240) or its siblings.

Thanks for clearing that up. So it's a new M with built in EVF and no rangefinder (or entirely electronic one), running in parallel with a continuing M240. That should keep everyone happy.