New Leica SL Lenses & Roadmap!

[dfarkas]

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I had a really fascinating conversation with Peter Karbe (head of optics department at Leica) today regarding the new SL lenses. Me, before conversation: meh, 75 and 90 f/2. After: I need these in my life! Will be writing an article about the info from our chat in the next couple of days. Working on video interview editing right now. And, yes, it's 1am here and I still have hours of work to do. 

[steppenw0lf]

Yes ...... the absence of a long telephoto and extender with AF and OIS is rather a puzzle.

 

Most people can live with existing M and R shorter focal length lenses used manually, but using the big R lenses does pose problems .......

 

I'd happily pass on the 50/75/90 ....... but would jump at anything 300+ with an extender.

 

Whilst Leica may imagine long telephotos would be low volume sales ...... I think they have overestimated the attraction of AF primes ..... particularly with many of us having high quality M and R equivalents that are easy to use on the SL....

 

 

I think the SL AF 2/90 will be a hit. Almost everybody would like to have a perfect 90mm with AF (ok OIS would also have been great). In the same way for me a AF 2/28 would be a great hit. (more than a 2/35) Of course the M 28 are great stopgaps.

For the 90 there will be three options: 24-90 with OIS, 90-280 with Apo and OIS, or prime 90 with Apo. Great. So users have the choice to go for OIS with the zooms and accept the big weight. or no OIS with the smaller prime.

To round up, a macro-ring (supporting AF and OIS) for the 90-280, the 90 and others would also be useful. An Apo 90 will probably also be great in macro-photography, as long as there is no dedicated macro lens (Again the R 100 is a great stopgap).

And of course extenders are needed - already for the 90-280 and for later 280 or 400mm primes. (ideally 1.4x and even better 1.7x)

Edited September 23, 2016 by steppenw0lf

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[snowyphile]

And a 2x (or 1.4x) tele-extender?

[meerec]

 

Makes no sense to me have the 2x converter and turn my lens into an f/8 lens ... too slow for anything.

 

And a 2x (or 1.4x) tele-extender?

[steppenw0lf]

A new interview regarding the new lenses for SL with Mr. Karbe from Leica: D. Farkas did it again !

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/setting-a-new-standard-with-leica-sl-lenses-a-discussion-with-peter-karbe-at-photokina-2016/

 

Interesting detail: The new primes will have 67mm filter thread, that makes them finally smaller than the first three lenses, great. And now do not tell me that the camera will topple over and that you prefer 82mm !  

I have to add the image:

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited September 29, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[thighslapper]

mmmm .... the interview combined with the recent emphasis at Photokina confirms that the SL and associated gear is Leica's main driving force for future development. 

 

No wonder an M update is overdue ......

[scott kirkpatrick]

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I think that product shot of the four lenses is a composite, since the 16-35 is supposed to have the same 67 mm filter siize as the primes.  The 16-35 looks like it will be very elegant and comfortable to shoot with.  But I was a little disappointed that Karbe in the interview was not as enthusiastic about its qualities as he is about the new f/2.0 primes.

 

scott

[meerec]

I understood that the Summicrons will have 67mm filter thread not the 16-35 zoom, which I believe is to receive 82mm.

Can't wait till 2017 to buy the 75mm. Definitely skipping the summilux 50. I own the 90-280 and it's a keeper for me. Haven't bought the 24-90 becuase I prefer to shoot with the M lenses.

 

 

I think that product shot of the four lenses is a composite, since the 16-35 is supposed to have the same 67 mm filter siize as the primes.  The 16-35 looks like it will be very elegant and comfortable to shoot with.  But I was a little disappointed that Karbe in the interview was not as enthusiastic about its qualities as he is about the new f/2.0 primes.

 

scott

[meerec]

They will topple forward or not, remains to be seen, depends on the weight. I definitely prefer the smaller size of the summicrons. Will be buying the 75 !!

 

 

A new interview regarding the new lenses for SL with Mr. Karbe from Leica: D. Farkas did it again !

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/setting-a-new-standard-with-leica-sl-lenses-a-discussion-with-peter-karbe-at-photokina-2016/

 

Interesting detail: The new primes will have 67mm filter thread, that makes them finally smaller than the first three lenses, great. And now do not tell me that the camera will topple over and that you prefer 82mm !  

I have to add the image:

 

Leica SL Position 4 bis 7 Cross-Category-Teaser_vier-neue-Objektive_960x640-768x512.png

[LocalHero1953]

Dammit, just as I decided (after the size of the Summilux 50) that I could happily pass on the SL primes.......

 

An excellent article by Dave Farkas; and Peter Karbe may be the techy-in-chief at Leica but he's also a good salesman.

 

Interesting comments on their choice of AF motors. This seems to be an area where design progress has not yet reached a plateau among camera makers, with quite a lot of variety amongst the brands. I wonder if Leica, perhaps lacking some of the electronics expertise of the Fujis and Sonys, can compensate by better optical design expertise (e.g. for lighter focusing elements).

 

Like everyone else who has grappled with focusing the Apo-Summicron-M 90 wide open for portraits, and often reverted in the heat of the action to f/4 or smaller, I wonder how we will deal not just with fast AF at f/2 but also even thinner DoF? I foresee even more portraits with not just one eye in focus, but also focus gradation across an eye.

 

It's a pity that the interview didn't cover the Summilux-SL 50; given Peter Karbe's recognition that SL users wanted smaller lenses, comments on why they took the larger route for the 50 would have been interesting.

 

As a purely personal aside, as someone who has dealt with new-generation CAD software, and computer modelling/simulation, I'd love to see how Leica implement it, particularly in the context of mixed design teams (where not every member, however skilled in their own particular aspect, is on the same level in software skills).

[steppenw0lf]

I think that product shot of the four lenses is a composite, since the 16-35 is supposed to have the same 67 mm filter siize as the primes.  The 16-35 looks like it will be very elegant and comfortable to shoot with.  But I was a little disappointed that Karbe in the interview was not as enthusiastic about its qualities as he is about the new f/2.0 primes.

 

scott

 

 

Well, he said it is of the same high quality as the other two zooms. I have only the 90-280 but find it an extraordinary lens even compared to the old R  Apo zooms. So if the 16-35 is of the same quality ....

But I am not sure it has the 67mm filter size. It looks definitely larger than the primes - also in the video from photokina. So I actually expect another 82mm for the 16-35 - but I would not mind, if I am wrong.   

 

The new Summicrons seem to be on a higher level than anything in existance (?!), so no wonder that he is enthusiastic about them. (First it is a marketing event, and second he had probably a fight to produce Summicrons instead of Otus-like Summiuxes.) 

Edited September 29, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[ramarren]

The new SL lenses look nice. 

 

I'll be enjoying what I have until they come out, and then I can make comparisons and move equipment around to suit if it seems a good idea. I'm pretty happy already, just need to get my legs working well enough to get out and do some photography. Sigh.

[dgktkr]

I think that product shot of the four lenses is a composite, since the 16-35 is supposed to have the same 67 mm filter siize as the primes.

 ...

 

 

Yes, a composite. Look at the reflections off the black lens barrels and the bright chrome flanges at the bottom. The 16-35 and 35 should be blocking some of the light reflecting off the 75 and 90, but they're not. Also, measuring the diameter of the flanges on the screen with a ruler, they're all the same size, which seems to indicate that the 16-35 will indeed have a larger barrel.

 

dgktkr

Edited September 29, 2016 by dgktkr

[Leicaiste]

I saw the four new lenses during the Photokina and I can confirm the 16-35 is larger than the three Summicrons.

[dfarkas]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. 

 

I covered the 50mm Summilux SL in its own article:

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/photokina-2016-day-1-checking-out-the-50mm-summilux-sl-asph-and-multifunction-handgrip/

 

The 16-35 SL has an 82mm front diameter to remain consistent with the other two zooms. To say that the quality will be comparable to the 24-90 and 90-280 is not to be taken lightly. I'd presume that the 16-35 SL will outperform any existing wide angle zoom lens and set a new benchmark. Peter didn't downplay the zoom. Rather, he is just very, very excited to finally tell the world about their next generation prime lenses. And, the 50 Lux is part of that generation. The Summicrons feature the compressed DOF curve, but quality on the 50 is beyond outstanding. It is at least on the level of the 50 APO M. Regarding size, if you look at the Otus lenses, the 50mm is not really that large. The 55 f/1.4 Otus has a 77mm front diameter vs 82mm for the Leica, but the SL lens has autofocus and weather sealing, while the Otus is purely a manual affair. A lens of this quality shouldn't be compared to a cheap plastic fantastic N or C model. 

 

I agree that the Crons with their 67mm diamter and compact dimensions will be awesome for the SL. The 24-90 zoom is more than capable and insanely fun to shoot with, but I can't wait until I can put together a prime lens setup like I have with my M (24, 35, 50, 90). Although, maybe I'd go for the 16-35, 50 f/1.4 and 90 f/2 for a travel kit.... possibly a 35 cron as well. We'll have to see.  

[tom0511]

I am not sure if I like the idea of the "compressed DOF curve".  I love the smooth transition of the Leica S100 from focal plane to background, and I dont like if the transition between sharp and background is too abrupt.

In the end I need to see to make my own conclusion.

[adamdewilde]

I've already played with a few DNG samples of the 50Lux. Can't post them as I don't want to out my source. Just to put it out there, the digital corrections are definitely present in the shots I've toyed with

. 

Again, I don't know why you don't cover this in your article dfarkas. But why the size if digital corrections are implemented yet again?

 

I'd understand if they wanted to keep the lens compact. Or if they wanted to keep cost down.. But it's neither small nor cheap. What gives?

This isn't anywhere near 50APO level optics. I don't get the backslide from Karbe... Management forcing his hand?

 

 

EDIT: After reading the article you published, I'm starting to think that the 50Lux was a rush job, maybe just overseen or checked by him. Whereas the Summicron-SLs seem like his project based on the response.

 

Time will tell I guess.. I've always been a fan of the 75 Summicron-APO more then the 50lux-asph. And the only real thing that bothers me about the 75APO is the veiling flare issue that causes a complete loss of contrast in certain lighting conditions. If they fixed that and put a motor in the lens, I'd buy it for the SL.

Edited September 29, 2016 by adamdewilde

[adamdewilde]

"So corrections are baked into the DNG files before software processing?

 

Yes. In fact, the correction is also applied in live view operation. The Maestro II processor performs this in real time for video. Same for M lenses. Chromatic distortion is removed. This is very import for video where doing corrections in post production is much more difficult than for still images. As well, it lets the photographer or videographer see the final image result beforehand."

 

I've mentioned this before (when the SL+Zoom was first launched). Sometimes when shooting with the 24-90 the EVF will glitch out and show the lens without corrections. I'll compose and take the shot and later at home will notice that something is wrong with my composition. It's frustrating to say the least. Should be less of an issue with the primes though. Since none will be wide enough for the effect to be so dramatic in the corners. 

[dgktkr]

...

 

The Summicrons feature the compressed DOF curve

 

...

 

I'd sure like to know what that means. Perhaps: focal spot sizes are smaller due to reduced aberrations (closer to diffraction limited) so it is easier to tell when a part of the image is out of focus.

 

Diagrams and numbers would be helpful.

 

dgktkr

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[thighslapper]

Read the interview.

 

The normal parabolic nature of DOF range has been compressed ...... so the contrast/perceived sharpness drop off before and after the true focus point is steeper.

 

Hence the DOF profile at f2 looks the same as f1.4 ...... and the 3d modelling of the subject is enhanced...... 

 

Anyway, this is all pointless speculation ...... and will only be answered when your average Leica user has one for a while and tries it (eg. Jono) and then pronounces judgement. 

 

Personally, I don't really care what Leica get up to to make the lens produce good images ....... if it is as good as the 50 apo with AF thrown in then I can't see there will be much for normal people to complain about. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by thighslapper