Threatening Letter from LFI

[willeica]

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As far as i can w/o knowing the brief yes. There is no contract renewal here so not contract at all.

 

This is correct. When I was head of consumer protection in Ireland we discussed this issue with our opposite numbers in other European countries on many occasions. I would suggest that anyone who has problems with LFI and its 'heavies' should raise the matter in the first place with the consumer protection authorities in their own country and ask them to speak to their opposite numbers in Germany. If that fails the relevant DG of the EU Commission should be contacted. Leica AG should also take note as bad behaviour by LFI does adversely impact the Leica brand.

 

To tell the truth, as for LFI itself, I am not sure why I still have a subscription. It is a poor somewhat formulaic publication nowadays, a lot worse than the Viewfinder magazine produced by LHSA. I'll declare a slight interest in that I am a member of LHSA and one of my photos (from an article in the magazine) is on the cover of the current issue of Viewfinder. I have also had one of my photos in LFI, but that does prevent me from saying that what they are doing is very wrong and ultimately counter-productive.

 

William

[colonel]

Legal or not in Germany, computer or human generated, it is cr4p marketing and a poor image to have for a magazine selling internationally.

 

quite agree

its an outrage

it puts me off subscribing again to be honest

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[john_nyc]

Four years later and LFI is still at it.

I got one of these “pre-collection” letters today threatening legal action unless I paid up.

I had bought a one year digital subscription around this time 2019.  I allowed it to lapse, and last year I bought a few issues as in-app purchases.  After the initial year was up I no longer had access to new issues, unless I bought them in the app.  Fair enough.

The letter today is demanding payment for the year following the paid year, ending now.  I received no prior invoices or reminders, either via postal or email.  The last emails I had from them were from when I bought the subscription and the code they sent wasn’t accepted for several days.  

Basically they’re demanding payment for a digital subscription I didn’t have, since I no longer had access to new issues after the paid year was up.

It’s like a store that I haven’t gone to in a year sending me a bill for the stuff I would have bought had I continued to go there. 

I don’t feel threatened, since good luck to a small magazine publisher in Germany getting a penny out of me in the US.  I’m irritated that they’d try something like this to begin with.

They’ve guaranteed that they won’t get one more Euro cent out of me for the rest of my natural life. 

 

[Studienkamera]

43 minutes ago, john_nyc said:

They’ve guaranteed that they won’t get one more Euro cent out of me for the rest of my natural life.

Thanks for sharing your experience. A timely reminder, as I was just thinking about purchasing a subscription. I certainly won't go ahead now.

[MyLeicaWorld]

I've also ended my subscription sending them an email.. buying the digital copies online via the application is much more logical..

[kirkmc]

I just got one of these regarding a subscription I placed in 2018, which I let lapse in 2019. I resubscribed in early 2020, and I'm still receiving issues. It's odd that they're sending me a letter like this nearly three years after the time of the supposed invoice. I had noticed this thread before, when browsing the forum, so I knew not to panic. I'll just ignore the letter. 

I do enjoy the magazine; it introduces me to many photographers I don't know, and it's attractively printed. I'd rather have the hard copy than the digital version, to be honest., though with the print subscription I can also download the issues in the app. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by kirkmc

[Rona!d]

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I would be worried if Leica sends me invoices for cameras I haven´t ordered (and got) after my last buy in Solms.

[chrism]

I'm happy to say that sponsoring this forum doesn't lead to threatening letters from shady lawyers, even if contracts are auto-renewable in Germany!

I gave up on LFI some years ago when I lost interest in digital content and also any new system after the 'M'. I buy the occasional 'Black & White' magazine if I'm in the city and at a huge magazine store, but I think I'm better off saving my money for books that will continue to inspire. For example, at my bedside right now is 'Hollywood Portraits' by Roger Hicks (RIP) and Christopher Nisperos. Wonderful analyses of classic studio portraits and how to light them. I keep on going back to the really good books, but do I ever go back to the shelves of LFI? They'll be in the dumpster when we move.

[kirkmc]

I also subscribe to Black and White Photography magazine; and I buy a. I bet if photobooks each year. In fact, LFI has introduced me to photobooks I wasn’t aware of. I don’t know whether I will keep these magazines when I move, but for now I find them interesting enough each month.

[Michael Markey]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:43 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

This ought to be a business school case study in looking after your customers in a global economy.

 

Edit: memo to self - never subscribe to LFI. Or possibly any other German magazine.

That`s my take away too after reading  through this thread .

What an eye opener.

Its a poor magazine anyway .

 

 

 

[chrism]

Maybe no good turn goes unpunished after all. I sent LFI a link to this thread so they might reply to it, and perhaps modify their bad behaviour. I was thanked by this:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

So maybe I too will be getting threatening letters.

I miss handling my M2, but not much else about the Leica world - EXCEPTING ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM!

[Rona!d]

I am sure all these letters from LFI are correct on the base of the subscription terms you have/had in Germany. Their subsciption model shouldn´t differ much from others in Germany. If we don´t quit our sub within the quitting period here it will be automatically extended another year or two. All you have to do for that is "doing nothing".

I quit my sub some years ago and all I got was the confirmation and a special offer if I rethink my decision.

[kirkmc]

I would expect that, if this was the case, I'd get an email or a letter a few months before the subscription is due to renew telling me about the renewal, so I can end the subscription if I want to. 

As an aside, I subscribed to Aperture magazine for a year, but didn't want to continue, and their terms did not say anything about auto-renewal, but they did renew my subscription. I emailed them several times, and they never replied, so I had to contest the charge with my credit card. 

[Rona!d]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb kirkmc:

I would expect that, if this was the case, I'd get an email or a letter a few months before the subscription is due to renew telling me about the renewal, so I can end the subscription if I want to.

That renewal announcement letter/e-mail is NOT common in Germany. No letter from both parties mean "auto-renewal" in most cases.

There are subsciption models which automatically end, those are called like "magazine XYZ test subsciption". Only these end automatically. In most cases it´s for a shorter period than 1 year, maybe 3 or 6 monthly issues you pay in advance. Sometimes linked with a little reward like a coffee mug.

[kirkmc]

4 minutes ago, Rona!d said:

That renewal announcement letter/e-mail is NOT common in Germany. No letter from both parties mean "auto-renewal" in most cases.

There are subsciption models which automatically end, those are called like "magazine XYZ test subsciption". Only these end automatically. In most cases it´s for a shorter period than 1 year, maybe 3 or 6 monthly issues you pay in advance. Sometimes linked with a little reward like a coffee mug.

But if you have to pay again, they need to let you know. I'm guessing that, in all these cases, people's credit cards had expired, so they couldn't make the charge. Why wouldn't they contact the subscriber if that was the case? 

[Rona!d]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb kirkmc:

But if you have to pay again, they need to let you know. I'm guessing that, in all these cases, people's credit cards had expired, so they couldn't make the charge. Why wouldn't they contact the subscriber if that was the case? 

Indeed a good question and I think that might have been the case. The "auto-renewal" contract you have (at least under german law) doesn´t protect you against these payment reminders if the publisher did not get his money from your account but delivered magazines. After some unpaid issues they sent you, they stop sending future issues until they got paid. BUT they can demand payment for past and future deliveries if the contract says so.

This is my understanding as a German (ex)reader. All depends on your subcription model and contract partner. Not necessarily the magazine but possibly a "subscription broker".

[lct]

35 minutes ago, Rona!d said:

[...] The "auto-renewal" contract you have (at least under german law) doesn´t protect you against these payment reminders if the publisher did not get his money from your account but delivered magazines. [...]

I have no idea about German law but, as mentioned above, the applicable law is that of the habitual residence of the customer (Rome convention, art. 5 - http://tinyurl.com/zokenqe). 

[Rona!d]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb lct:

I have no idea about German law but, as mentioned above, the applicable law is that of the habitual residence of the customer (Rome convention, art. 5 - http://tinyurl.com/zokenqe). 

And when the applicable law allows auto-renewal then it´s contracted if the publishing house is clever enough. I could only report how it´s been handled in Germany.

I set myself reminders in my calender, so I can´t be surprised (well my calender bell often surprises me). Quit most subs though and only buy single issues if of interest (rarely happens) or limited subs which automatically end.

[Chuck Albertson]

I'm in the US, and I get an annual invoice to remind me to re-subscribe to LFI. Some publications here are slipping in the auto-subscribe "feature," though. You have to read the fine print on that blow-in they provide for subscribing, i.e., if you pay by credit card, you're automatically signed up for auto-subscribe. I send them a check instead.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[chrism]

Being someone with time on his hands, I sent a link to this thread to LFI. Initially I got the message I posted above telling me I was now a subscriber. Eventually, though, I got something sensible:

Quote

 

Dear Christopher Moss,

Thank you for your message.

I’ll forward the info to the appropriate section and we’ll respond to you in the next few days.

PS: We have corrected the incorrect confirmation in the contact form on the website.

Best regards,

David Rojkowski

Redaktion/Editorial staff
Leica Fotografie International
LFI Photographie GmbH
Burchardstraße 14
D-20095 Hamburg
http://www.lfi-magazine.photography
http://www.s-magazine.photography

 

 

I suppose they are still arguing about how to pour enough oil on these troubled waters to reclaim whatever reputation they once had.

 

One day, we will come to appreciate that despite the benefits the internet has brought us if we use it wisely, one of the things we have lost for good are the multiplicity of hobby magazines. Youngsters today would not begin to believe the number and variety of hobby-related magazines we could subscribe to forty years ago. I still have shelves of:

Aeromodeller

Radio Control Models and Electronics

Practical Photography

Amateur Photographer

Everyday Electronics

Practical Wireless

Custom Car (Oh! Those "Super CC" cartoons!)

Kit Car Magazine

Gramophone

Glass Audio

UHF Magazine

Positive Feedback (who recalls Harvey Rosenberg, the electro-shaman of single-ended triodes?)

and others that described quite accurately the arc of my Aspie-type interests. One lived for these issues and read every word obsessively.

 

I don't seem to have kept the BMJ, CMAJ, Canadian Journal of Rural Medicine, BJP, CJP etc in the same way, and don't give much of a damn for their loss. I'd still pay for a magazine that gave me a monthly thrill of film photography, but there doesn't seem to be one.