Edward Louis Marit Posted August 22, 2016 Share #1 Posted August 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear fellow forum users, I have subscribed to LFI for several years. While I have enjoyed it, the cost of subscribing from North America is high. So this year I decided not to renew my subscription and let it lapse, as one does. After several letters urging me to renew and offers of free gifts, I received the attached letter threatening legal action. Funny , but I don't remember signing a contract with them. One wonders where they plan to file their statement of claim? In Germany , where I do not live, or in Canada. I suspect the legal and court costs of doing so would far exceed the 79 euros they claim I "owe" them.doc049417.pdf I am not particularly worried by their threat, but I am extremely offended. I am in the process of composing an extremely nasty letter to send back and I want to cc Oliver Kaltner. Can someone please forward me his email address. Thank you 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Hi Edward Louis Marit, Take a look here Threatening Letter from LFI. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 22, 2016 Share #2 Posted August 22, 2016 Dear fellow forum users, I have subscribed to LFI for several years. While I have enjoyed it, the cost of subscribing from North America is high. So this year I decided not to renew my subscription and let it lapse, as one does. After several letters urging me to renew and offers of free gifts, I received the attached letter threatening legal action. Funny , but I don't remember signing a contract with them. One wonders where they plan to file their statement of claim? In Germany , where I do not live, or in Canada. I suspect the legal and court costs of doing so would far exceed the 79 euros they claim I "owe" them.doc049417.pdf I am not particularly worried by their threat, but I am extremely offended. I am in the process of composing an extremely nasty letter to send back and I want to cc Oliver Kaltner. Can someone please forward me his email address. Thank you Just send them an email formally cancelling your subscription. Legal systems differ, in Germany they run on unless cancelled, and do not lapse automatically like in the USA or Canada, so no reason for offense. A German would not even understand an angry reaction. Mostly LFI will accept a late cancellation on courtesy if asked. They did in my case because I simply forgot to cancel in time. I got the same letter and thought: "woops! - my fault" Given the above, a nasty reaction appears to me to be unwarranted and counterproductive. 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted August 22, 2016 Share #3 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Dear fellow forum users, I have subscribed to LFI for several years. While I have enjoyed it, the cost of subscribing from North America is high. So this year I decided not to renew my subscription and let it lapse, as one does. After several letters urging me to renew and offers of free gifts, I received the attached letter threatening legal action. Funny , but I don't remember signing a contract with them. One wonders where they plan to file their statement of claim? In Germany , where I do not live, or in Canada. I suspect the legal and court costs of doing so would far exceed the 79 euros they claim I "owe" them.doc049417.pdf I am not particularly worried by their threat, but I am extremely offended. I am in the process of composing an extremely nasty letter to send back and I want to cc Oliver Kaltner. Can someone please forward me his email address. Thank you You don´t have mailed them, that you cancel the subscription? I would spend a letter/email to cancel the subscription. Jan Edited August 22, 2016 by jankap 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted August 22, 2016 Share #4 Posted August 22, 2016 Just send them an email formally cancelling your subscription. Legal systems differ, in Germany they run on unless cancelled, and do not lapse automatically like in the USA or Canada, so no reason for offense. A German would not even understand an angry reaction. Mostly LFI will accept a late cancellation on courtesy if asked. They did in my case because I simply forgot to cancel in time. I got the same letter and thought: "woops! - my fault" Given the above, a nasty reaction appears to me to be unwarranted and counterproductive. Thanks for this advice, as in the UK a subscription would also just lapse if not renewed, although this is the lazy way. Will make a mental note in case I get fed up with the current style! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Louis Marit Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share #5 Posted August 22, 2016 Thanks all for advising that subscription cancellation requires notification in Germany . I will temper my reaction Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted August 22, 2016 Share #6 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) @Edward, sorry to hear of the hostility you encountered but it does sound like a misunderstanding. Oh, the joys of doing business with those inscrutable Germans! You can subscribe to LFI with a company that is based in Englewood, NJ if you like: https://www.glpnews.com/EN/TP/LeicaE.html I have subscribed to LFI through GLP News for the past 13 years and have had no trouble with their service at all; no nasty letters, no threats of dispatching Grenzschutzgruppe 9 der Bundespolizei to "deal with" me over my lapsed subscription, no hostilities at all. The worst thing that has happened is that once in a blue moon, my issue of LFI will arrive a few days to a week late. This is due to the fact that GLP has to await for their shipment of LFI to arrive from Germany before they can in turn send it out to their subscribers. This has happened perhaps 3-4 times in 13 years; that's an enviable record, I'd have to say. Edited August 22, 2016 by Carlos Danger 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 22, 2016 Share #7 Posted August 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Out of interest, I have subscribed for several years with the magazines coming directly from Germany. The cost is almost exactly half of that by subscribing through Leica Camera here (Australia). That would most likely be an indictment of postal costs here, not Leica Camera.One nice feature of having the subscription is that you get better prices for the downloadable versions through the LFI app. Especially for back issues that are a real bargain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted August 23, 2016 Share #8 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) ....I am not particularly worried by their threat, but I am extremely offended...... So this nonsense is still going on! When I bought my MP over 10 years ago, a year's free subscription to LFI came with the camera. I did not like the magazine and I did not want to subscribe to it after the first year's free subscription. Despite several increasingly strong emails from me to try to make someone at LFI understand that I did not want their magazine, I also received threats of 'legal action'! Eventually, I managed to get the message through to someone at LFI and received an apology from them. You've no reason to be concerned by their threats, but perfectly right to feel affronted. Tell them you don't wish to renew your subscription and then ignore them. Edited August 23, 2016 by honcho Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted August 23, 2016 Share #9 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Threaten legal action to recompense for emotional distress and time wasted responding to this crap ;-) Edited August 23, 2016 by MarkP 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 23, 2016 Share #10 Posted August 23, 2016 Thanks all for advising that subscription cancellation requires notification in Germany . I will temper my reaction Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Subscribing to a magazine from Germany does not make you German and subject to German laws, just as buying a banana does not make you subject to Jamaican laws. You do well to highlight it here on the forum to show the absurdity of LFI's behaviour. Steve 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 23, 2016 Share #11 Posted August 23, 2016 They are not ¨behaving¨. No one sent a threatening letter. It´s just a computer automatically following procedures. Their terms are clearly outlined here: https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/subscription/lfi-2-jahres-abo-e-1002251.html 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted August 23, 2016 Share #12 Posted August 23, 2016 They are not ¨behaving¨. No one sent a threatening letter. It´s just a computer automatically following procedures. Their terms are clearly outlined here: https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/subscription/lfi-2-jahres-abo-e-1002251.html When LFI persist in sending their magazine despite being told not to and then threaten 'legal action' for payment (bring it on! ) they stink, not their computer! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2016 Share #13 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Instead of moaning about a system generated letter why not just email LFI direct. I think you will find you get a very fast ,friendly and positive response. Very nice and helpful people in the LFI office in my experience. BrianP Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted August 23, 2016 Share #14 Posted August 23, 2016 Instead of moaning about a system generated letter why not just email LFI direct. I think you will find you get a very fast ,friendly and positive response. Very nice and helpful people in the LFI office in my experience. BrianP Read posts #8 & 12! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 23, 2016 Share #15 Posted August 23, 2016 Legal or not in Germany, computer or human generated, it is cr4p marketing and a poor image to have for a magazine selling internationally. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted August 23, 2016 Share #16 Posted August 23, 2016 When LFI persist in sending their magazine despite being told not to and then threaten 'legal action' for payment (bring it on! ) they stink, not their computer! Lets not rewrite the facts - the OP did not tell them not to, other than by not renewing subscription. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23, 2016 Share #17 Posted August 23, 2016 Subscribing to a magazine from Germany does not make you German and subject to German laws, just as buying a banana does not make you subject to Jamaican laws. You do well to highlight it here on the forum to show the absurdity of LFI's behaviour. Steve Actually it does, if you read the agreement (and a subscription is an agreement) you will find that it stipulates that German law will apply, just as an agreement made in the UK will stipulate that British law will apply. If it were otherwise it would be near impossible to have international contracts. You will find in cases like this that most countries will facilitate other countries through international agreements. If a German court ordered payment it would be simple to collect the money - plus total costs- through a court in Canada or the UK for that matter. Notorious exceptions are for instance Japan (totally impossible to get your money through legal complexity) and Italy (you will get your money but it will take 12 years) However, for smaller sums most creditors will not take the trouble and risk of costs in case of non-recovery. Coming from the other side of having to be paid for my services, there is nothing absurd in the situation. This is perfectly normal business practice, the only hitch being that the OP did not realize that a subscription with a German publisher constitutes a contract that has to be cancelled to end. BTW, this is not the first letter the poster has received. It will start with a simple invoice, followed by a polite request. Only after ignoring those will one get a stronger letter, in which legal measures are announced. That is the correct way, if legal steps are not announced they cannot be taken. Note that there are 6 Euro for "2. Mahngebühr" which means costs for the second payment request. The first payment request is in a different tone, not that this one is particularly aggressive by common business standards. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted August 23, 2016 Share #18 Posted August 23, 2016 Lets not rewrite the facts - the OP did not tell them not to, other than by not renewing subscription. Try again. These are the facts from MY experience of getting LFI to stop sending their junk mail to ME. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23, 2016 Share #19 Posted August 23, 2016 Legal or not in Germany, computer or human generated, it is cr4p marketing and a poor image to have for a magazine selling internationally. Errr.. They should provide their services for free? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted August 23, 2016 Share #20 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Years ago, in my inexperienced youth, I ran into a similar problem with subscription service I had entered into. I learned that the best way to get the message across to the other end was to simply return the unopened item to the postal service, advise them that I did not order it, and request it be returned. It did the trick......Not sure if things have changed since then. If you accept something that you did not pay for, I would guess (if the folks on the other end are belligerent enough to to press the point over an extended magazine subscription) he sender would have a leg to stand on in a subsequent dispute. Edited August 23, 2016 by Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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