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Good UK Developing and scanning Labs


Stealth3kpl

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Hi to all on the Leica Forum. I haven't posted here before, mainly because I don't use a Leica - always been fearful that, were I to take a leap into your world, I would get hooked and it would become very expensive!

I am extremely disappointed to read a couple of the posts on this thread because my staff and myself work extremely hard here to offer an excellent service. As far as I am aware, we are the only lab in the UK currently investing seriously in our lab business, and, we continue to grow our film processing, scanning and printing volumes - to the point where we have recently had delivered another Noritsu 37 series printer and we are having a new HS-1800 scanner currently made for us in Japan to go with this - these will be operational within the next 4 weeks or so. This is in addition to other investments we have made in the last 9 months including the commissioning of 50" C-Type print service with the Lightjet and 50" autopan processor and the introduction of a Flextight X5 scanner.

 

This sort of investment is only possible because we offer a high quality service, through which we can grow the business and retain customers. If there is something someone doesn't like, then, obviously, it's extremely important to me that we address this. I am only interested in offering a top quality service, but competitively priced, because of our reliance on the latest, most efficient, equipment and our low clerical overhead. Our customer base includes a huge range of photographers, from beginners all the way to the likes of Magnum members, fine art exhibitions etc.

 

 

I had intended to start sending films to UKFilmLab but they're moving to BC, Canada. Can anyone suggest a UK colour film processing and scanning service which provides the same sort of service i.e. not just sending the film through the scanner on auto but personally monitoring and maximising each frame's scan? I'm sick and tired of duff scans from the usual budget labs i.e. Peak Imaging, AG Photographic, Snaps etc.

Has anyone tried Photographique? I can't say I'm impressed by the few samples on the website. Any other suggestions?

I don't want to scan my holiday photos myself.

Pete

 

Pete - I have three guys here who judge every image manually, whether it be for scan or print. All three of them are extremely experienced. If you feel you have had a "duff" scan, our policy would always be to fix it. Did you contact us? We may have a competitive price, but this is because we have efficient plant and systems, NOT because we cut corners. Please feel free to contact me directly and we will re-scan or scan a film for you FOC.

 

 

Pete - I was using UKFilmLab for C41 & E6 processing & high-res .jpgs having despaired of AGPhoto and Peak Imagings' dust & spot-ridden negs/slides (which I scanned with my V700 then spent ages 'spotting').  When they announced the move to Canada they mentioned that postal costs etc would still be competitive.  IIRC, they should be up and running by the end of the month - why not see what their costs actually are?

 

Keith - the last order I can find for you is from January this year where we processed 1 roll of E6 for you. After we sent the "dispatched" email, you responded that you had already received the film, and scanned it, and commended us with the words "Excellent service".

 

I don't see how this squares with your statement above, and we have not heard from you since, or before, in respect of any problem. Please contact me to let us rectify any issues? We are more than willing to do so. I think if you are going to post such a message, on a public forum, without first contacting us, it is grossly unfair and completely disproportionate.

 

In terms of E6, we regularly process a sack load of E6 120 film for a couple of well known landscape photographers - who also scan all their own film - we have never had any complaints or problems. If anyone wants to contact me privately I can put you in touch with them. This is in addition to numerous other customers, all of whom have very high standards.

 

 

Matt

Ag Photographic

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HI Matt, welcome, bought a Leica yet?  ;)

 

I have no experience with your lab and understand why you would not, without permission, quote the names of your happy clients but I have to say in my recent research on the web where photographers "tag" their work with the lab UKFilmLab, Richards, Carmencita as mentioned here and others are all over the place associated with work that is of high quality and I have not seen Ag mentioned at all. That may be a limitation of my searching or it may be an avenue you would want to pursue with those clients, I would think that would be more productive to generating confidence and business than a private introduction to the few posters here.

 

Your "each negative professionally corrected for colour and density" is fine of course but corrected to what?

The labs mentioned above are "correcting" to specific looks, in some cases individually bespoke to the photographer, not a central standard applicable to all. Photographers are prepared to pay, and well, for that service and I understand it may not be your business model but that is why you are not, currently, on my short list.

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Pete - I have three guys here who judge every image manually, whether it be for scan or print. All three of them are extremely experienced. If you feel you have had a "duff" scan, our policy would always be to fix it. Did you contact us? We may have a competitive price, but this is because we have efficient plant and systems, NOT because we cut corners. Please feel free to contact me directly and we will re-scan or scan a film for you FOC.

 

 

Matt

Ag Photographic

Thanks Matt,

Yes I did contact you and you kindly offered to rescan.

 

But my point is, I shouldn't be put in the position of having to complain, repackage and return and I know you'll agree.

Pete

Edited by Stealth3kpl
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Big thumbs up for AG Photographic from me. Have tried loads of labs for scanning and processing various 35mm and 120 films and always return to AG. Never had a single problem with scan quality, or issues with the negs. Been using them for years now and their prints are always fantastic too. I haven't found anyone who beats them on price and all round service.

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HI Matt, welcome, bought a Leica yet?  ;)

 

I have no experience with your lab and understand why you would not, without permission, quote the names of your happy clients but I have to say in my recent research on the web where photographers "tag" their work with the lab UKFilmLab, Richards, Carmencita as mentioned here and others are all over the place associated with work that is of high quality and I have not seen Ag mentioned at all. That may be a limitation of my searching or it may be an avenue you would want to pursue with those clients, I would think that would be more productive to generating confidence and business than a private introduction to the few posters here.

 

Your "each negative professionally corrected for colour and density" is fine of course but corrected to what?

The labs mentioned above are "correcting" to specific looks, in some cases individually bespoke to the photographer, not a central standard applicable to all. Photographers are prepared to pay, and well, for that service and I understand it may not be your business model but that is why you are not, currently, on my short list.

 
Well....I have always fancied the MP - anything called "mechanical perfection" gets my vote. And any manufacturer with the confidence to use such a name also gets my vote!
 
 
When we say "corrected" this means balanced for colour, contrast and density - as anyone will know who has scanned, or printed, a film, it's rare the image will be produced with no colour casts and perfect contrast and density (or, in the case of B&W, just perfect contrast and density). At Ag an experienced photographic printer is balancing the images, by eye, which is the standard, expected, service from any professional lab. They are balanced, or corrected, to the eye of that person - this is what they are corrected to. The objective is to produce consistent results so the customer knows what they are going to get order after order. The images will be ready to use for whatever purpose the customer wants as is, or, ready for the customer to impose their own post production workflow on.
 
Sometimes, customers will ask us to balance with lower contrast or higher contrast, less sharpening, more sharpening etc etc or other preferences. What is VERY difficult to do is to try and impose the customers own post production desires here in the lab, without the customer physically here to direct. There are parallels with motion picture. When a film is telecine transferred there is the option of an attended or unattended transfer. With an attended transfer the production's Director of Photography will sit with the telecine operator and dictate the colour and balance of each scene. With an unattended transfer, the operator makes their own judgement. Obviously, an attended transfer is more costly.
 
Now I know, there are labs that offer a bespoke service to the customer's own look. We have looked extensively at this and trialled it with some customers. There are difficulties with offering this service, in our opinion - the main difficulty is a commercial one. We think that, whilst we fully appreciate customers may well be prepared to pay for this enhanced service, when we really work out the true cost of offering it, it would be necessary to charge not just a bit more than the standard service, but very significantly more. The customer, when paying for this service, expects images to arrive looking exactly as they want, and, as I say, without the customer sat next to the person balancing the images, it is really hard to achieve this. I know people will say, they experienced this service from such and such a lab and it worked every time. But there are many customers for which it doesn't work, which means endless re-scans and dialogue - which is all labour that has to be factored in and amortised. And sometimes it's not actually possible to achieve the "look" they want anyway from the negatives available.
 
So, I think it is a niche service. I think there are people willing to pay the extra, but not enough people, in our opinion, and I think looking at the growth of our lab business since October 2012, this is correct. So - at this stage in our business - it's hard to justify the additional manpower to offer this enhanced service. But I wouldn't rule it out in the future when there are some extra economies of scale within the business.
 
I should say, things are different for print output. When we are printing we work with the customer to ensure the finished article is exactly as required, which is of course a physical permanent piece that can't be adjusted. This level of service however just doesn't easily carry over, commercially, to the scanning of whole films for the reasons stated.
 
 

Thanks Matt,

Yes I did contact you and you kindly offered to rescan.

 

But my point is, I shouldn't be put in the position of having to complain, repackage and return and I know you'll agree.

Pete

 

Hi Pete - sure, I do agree. But at the same time, if something goes wrong - as can happen in any processing lab - all we can offer to do is re-scan or print the images. Sometimes, for example, a speck of dust can get lodged in the film path through the scanner and it caused a fine line through the images. It's very difficult to see on the judgement screen of the Noritsu software so sometimes, one of these can slip the net and not get spotted. Thankfully not for a long time though! 

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Hi to all on the Leica Forum. I haven't posted here before, mainly because I don't use a Leica - always been fearful that, were I to take a leap into your world, I would get hooked and it would become very expensive!

 

Keith - the last order I can find for you is from January this year where we processed 1 roll of E6 for you. After we sent the "dispatched" email, you responded that you had already received the film, and scanned it, and commended us with the words "Excellent service".

 

I don't see how this squares with your statement above, and we have not heard from you since, or before, in respect of any problem. Please contact me to let us rectify any issues? We are more than willing to do so. I think if you are going to post such a message, on a public forum, without first contacting us, it is grossly unfair and completely disproportionate.

 

 

Matt

Ag Photographic

Matt - my comment of 'Excellent Service' was made [a] because in that instance it was deserved and  because I was relieved that my hope that they would be dust/spot free was fulfilled - unlike the negs that triggered my remark in post #5.  I will sent you a private message with links to an album on Photobucket where you can view the offending images.  They are downsized jpg's from my scanned tiff. files.  As to not contacting AG ref that roll in 2014 (the sticker no. on the end of the roll is 5704), I was in the throes of final preparations for an extended trip out of the country and my priorities lay elsewhere.  On my return over two months later there were many more pressing issues to be dealt with.

 

As to your

I think if you are going to post such a message, on a public forum, without first contacting us, it is grossly unfair and completely disproportionate.

I find it to be rather Orwellian and will leave it at that.

 

 

I imagine that customers who require scanning and printing services will be heartened to read about the investments being made by your organisation and I wish you well with it.

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Just to update an mail from Exposure Film lab confirms my order despatched, CD and return negs, included the following comments on my A12 backs brought out of retirement for the small project I was testing for which confirms a service is due:

 

We noticed a few problems with your camera/back. Most of the rolls showed that the camera/ back hadn't been rolled on quite enough at the start, 

with the first image on the roll being very close the edge. 

This hasn't caused a problem but thought you should be aware, we've left the sticker ends on the Fuji rolls which we usually cut off, so you can see how close it is.

 

Unfortunately on the 6th roll the opposite has happened. This roll has double spacing between the frames which has caused the last image to come off the end of the roll as there are only 11 images. 

And part of the second to last image is where the film is connected onto the processor equipment which has caused a defect on the image, shown in image 1

(we generally scan the opposite order of how the film is shot so this is the last image on the roll)

 

Hope this helps, thanks.

 

I await the scans and will further update.

Just to note I do load to the start arrow on the backs with the backing paper start mark so suspect the wind on when in the cassette is in the back is "lazy" requiring service, looking on-line nearly as cheap to buy more backs with a guarantee then send for service, what a world!

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[...I find it to be rather Orwellian and will leave it at that...]

 

I very much like your work, Keith, but is it really surprising that a business (ie people's investment and livelihood) would be upset that a complaint would be made on a public forum, specifically to a potential customer base, which was not a big enough priority for you to address directly with them first? Had Matt not been reading this forum, he may have lost customers on your word, without having had an opportunity to investigate a complaint that was not made.

 

Regardless of the validity of the complaint, I would be dismayed in the same circumstance as Matt, unless I didn't take any professional interest in my business.

 

This is not intended to question your experience, but rather the method of response.

 

 

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Negative and positive reviews is the stuff of the internet. I'm with Keith on this. With a free exchange of honest opinions, you can do without various businesses cropping up and trying to question the validity of those opinions.

 

For the record, I have also used AG Photolab a few times and have generally been quite satisfied. However, the last time I used them (around the spring of last year) I received a small batch of dodgy interpolated scans that were certainly not satisfactory. I raised the issue and was freely offered the option of returning the film to be rescanned but, like Pete above, I decided not to bother and moved on.

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On a happier note my scans, on CD, and negs, sleeved in those unbranded translucent neg sleeves, no worse for that only fools like me spend on PrintFile or similar, first look is very good. No scratches or drying marks on those I have examined, all will be checked as I transfer the storage and the files meet my specs.

I have run some through to straighten and crop where necessary and sharpened for web, what I want to do before I post some examples is scan some myself on the V850 with standard settings to see the differences which may, we shall see, be helpful to me and those interested.

Bear with me, but on first sight no hesitation in recommending.

Edited by chris_livsey
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Negative and positive reviews is the stuff of the internet. I'm with Keith on this. With a free exchange of honest opinions, you can do without various businesses cropping up and trying to question the validity of those opinions....

I'm with Keith on the free exchange of honest opinions on the internet (exactly what I'm doing here), but I'm also with Matt on first at least discussing the issue with the business involved. I'm not suggesting that both parties need to agree.

 

Personally, I think it would be more Orwellian to expect a free exchange on the internet to exclude particular parties. That is subject to interpretation, though, as are the wonderful writings of George.

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I'm with Keith on the free exchange of honest opinions on the internet (exactly what I'm doing here), but I'm also with Matt on first at least discussing the issue with the business involved. I'm not suggesting that both parties need to agree.

 

 

I don't agree. It would have been sufficient for AG Photo to have made a statement along the lines of "we are sorry to hear that you have been dissatisfied, Keith, please contact us and we'll be happy blah blah.." rather than publicly try and undermine Keith by implying he is being inconsistent (or untruthful, depending upon how much we choose to infer) by revealing the content of a private communication. I also rather dislike this kind of forensic line by line response to other member comments. IMO it is unnecessarily defensive and smacks of simply getting into an argument with the customer. Far better to take the criticism on the chin and promise to do better next time.

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I don't agree. It would have been sufficient for AG Photo to have made a statement along the lines of "we are sorry to hear that you have been dissatisfied, Keith, please contact us and we'll be happy blah blah.." rather than publicly try and undermine Keith by implying he is being inconsistent (or untruthful, depending upon how much we choose to infer) by revealing the content of a private communication. I also rather dislike this kind of forensic line by line response to other member comments. IMO it is unnecessarily defensive and smacks of simply getting into an argument with the customer. Far better to take the criticism on the chin and promise to do better next time.

Fair enough, Ian.

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It is good to see a reasoned dialogue debating both sides of the argument - it is not unknown for such things to descend into the ad-hominen groove so am happy to see that this is not the case here.  I would only add that if one were to delete 'Ag Photo / Peak Imaging' from my comment re level of service and insert 'Leica', would the argument have been raised in the first place?  (a rhetorical question - I think the discussion has run its course).

 

And now back to scanning the roll of Acros 100 from my GW690II that I developed this morning...  Much more fun!  ;)

Edited by Keith (M)
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The scores are in:

I asked for my scans, from Exposure Film Lab, to be bright, airy, pastel, the current Canlas vogue but very suitable for summer I thought and would see how well the lab responded, as opposed to a "standard" middle of the road scan.

I have re-scanned the negs, which are all clean (and were dust free until I started scanning them!!) and used Epson V850 defaults, no dust removal applied they are for colour comparison, with just same web sharpening applied as to the lab scan files for upload. I have left the V850 scans full frame, I have cropped and straightened some of the Lab scans but you can see they scan to the black edge but I don't think you will have any issue differentiating them.

The Ferrari red is a colour we all know, well all except Epson apparently, that was in mixed light in the National Motor Museum UK which the lab has nailed.

 

All are on Hasselblad 500c/m 80mm f2.8 planar T*, @f2.8 and on Kodak Portra 400 shot (sunny sixteen) @200iso

 

The lab scans are on my Flickr as larger files should you wish to look, the V850 scans are not, for obvious reasons, not publicly available, other than here.

( I would have dialled back the cup-cakes they are too blown out for me but the colour is good)

 

28997718702_df507b6b6b.jpg28484078703_569f5415a4.jpg

 

 

29102655085_2fc188874e.jpg  28483899623_743c842ace.jpg

 

29025342091_1d578ed6a0.jpg28816122450_713f902830.jpg

 

 

28484282333_204db52e41.jpg28481020164_3fabd92c1f.jpg

 

28481222444_c2d8438dec.jpg29102377895_ceed02843b.jpg

Edited by chris_livsey
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These look good. They have the Portra greens and blues I like. Red seems difficult in the hybrid film/digital world but it looks good here.

Epson scan seemed to do a better job with reds than Vuescan when I used an Epson V700. I could only get reds using Color Perfect when scanning with Vuescan. Vuescan seems much better when using the Plustek 120.

I think I'll give Exposure Film Lab a try following my next trip. Thanks for this Chris.

Pete

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