T shooting speed?

[Archiver]

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As I'm on the verge of sending my M9 away for service, I'm considering what I'll be using in the meantime.  My Ricoh GXR M-mount module is great for image quality, but there is a considerable lag between images while the buffer clears and the camera writes to the card.

 

How fast is the Leica T shot to shot speed?  Say I was shooting with M lenses, how fast can I take consecutive images?  How fast is the T compared with the M?

[Guest satrycon]

assuming you're using the 95mb/sec sd cards..

 

with M lenses, it will shot as fast as you can focus

 

but shooting bursts is crap on the T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I'm on the verge of sending my M9 away for service, I'm considering what I'll be using in the meantime.  My Ricoh GXR M-mount module is great for image quality, but there is a considerable lag between images while the buffer clears and the camera writes to the card.

 

How fast is the Leica T shot to shot speed?  Say I was shooting with M lenses, how fast can I take consecutive images?  How fast is the T compared with the M?

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[Archiver]

That sounds reasonably good.  I was just doing some shooting today with the M9 and GXR, and found that while the M9 could keep up with my squeezing off shot after shot, the GXR took a few seconds to clear the buffer between each, which was awful.

[haydenc]

The T has some bugs around using manual focus.

If you take a shot and then half press the shutter in anticipation of the next shot, it can actually pause the camera processing the buffer.

While it is processing the buffer, it shows the last shot taken.

So say you take a portrait, you focus and the distance to subject doesn't change so you want to fire off a few shots as you know they will be in focus.

You almost need to count to 3 before each shot.

If you jump the gun, and half press, you can hold the preview. Then if you have to take the shot as you know you are missing shots, it just keeps adding them to the buffer and all you can see through the view finder is the last shot taken.

If you use continuous shooting it makes it worse.

In both cases you have to wait for the entire buffer to be written to card before the viewfinder becomes alive again.

It is massively frustrating.

Basically you have a camera that has a 12 shot buffer, but are blinded by the image preview if any of the buffer is being used.

The behaviour is different if you use Auto focus T lenses. It appears the firmware/operation of starting the autofocus system also cancels the image preview when more than 1 image is in the buffer.

So there is not the same limitation using AF vs M focus.

 

I have been complaining about this issue since firmware 1.1 and have reported it to Leica many times.

 

It seems a fix would be quite simple.

That is when you half press the shutter in M mode, that it also cancels the image preview and returns you to the live EVF.

The image preview settings should also dictate how long the image preview stays in the viewfinder.

I have no idea why if you fill the buffer it would block the view finder until it is written out. (If you use the internal memory 12 raw shots can take a very long time)

The image preview should flash up for a second (or whatever you have it configured to in settings), then the viewfinder should clear, and instead show an indication of how many shots are left in the buffer.

(It does show you how many shots need to be written to card but you are blocked to see live action while it does this.)

My go to technique is to focus, frame it up, and then start taking pics and then I have to take my face away from the camera so I can see what is happening while I keep firing off shots hoping my framing is ok.

If you have a different shooting style where you can slow down and pause between each shot, use focus aids, don't take shots of people or fast moving subjects etc, then this may not annoy you like it does me.

In the 2 years since I have had the camera, it doesn't seem to bother anyone else...

[Guest satrycon]

i haven't noticed this in M mode..but i never take more than 6-7 shots in one burst..and im using the fastest sd cards available.

 

 

 

If you use continuous shooting it makes it worse.

[haydenc]

i haven't noticed this in M mode..but i never take more than 6-7 shots in one burst..and im using the fastest sd cards available.

Are you blinded until the full buffer is written out?

 

With Auto Focus, if you half press the shutter, it cancels the image preview if images are still in the buffer.

If you then release the shutter button it will go back to showing the last image taken until the last image has been written out to card.

Contrast that to Manual focus and there is no way for the user to cancel the image preview until the buffer is written out.

 

I agree 95 MB cards make this issue less noticeable, however if the half press cancelled the image preview in Manual focus mode (like it does in AutoFocus), the whole camera operation would be much quicker.

 

After reading Jono Slack's article on using no focus aids to focus on the T, I just trust the EVF and don't use any focus aids.

I just wish the camera could keep up with me. It looks like it can but it is limited and this bug should have been fixed by now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest satrycon]

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hmmm i never noticed..as i never look at the screen after shooting..ill test it again today

 

i don't use AF, and don't use focus mag..i focus by the "shimmer" in the EVF

 

 

 

Are you blinded until the full buffer is written out?

With Auto Focus, if you half press the shutter, it cancels the image preview if images are still in the buffer.
If you then release the shutter button it will go back to showing the last image taken until the last image has been written out to card.
Contrast that to Manual focus and there is no way for the user to cancel the image preview until the buffer is written out.

I agree 95 MB cards make this issue less noticeable, however if the half press cancelled the image preview in Manual focus mode (like it does in AutoFocus), the whole camera operation would be much quicker.

After reading Jono Slack's article on using no focus aids to focus on the T, I just trust the EVF and don't use any focus aids.
I just wish the camera could keep up with me. It looks like it can but it is limited and this bug should have been fixed by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Yes- There is definitely a difference in the write speed or how the camera processes/saves images with manual lenses. I use the Leica adapter with M glass and get the same results as haydenc describes above.

 

I use a Sandisk Ultra SD card - and when I shoot with manual lenses I wait - whether it's 1 or 2 or 12 shots.

 

I wish that Leica could figure out the issue and fix it. It truly takes away from the effectiveness and the joy of shooting with M lenses on the T.

 

Thanks for writing this up so succinctly haydenc. Hopefully Leica is listening...

[Guest satrycon]

i wonder if they will actually release a new T or have trashed it forever like the R...and wouldn't a 24MP APS-C sensor fit in the same body ? or would it be larger ?

[gbealnz]

APS-C sensor is the same size, regardless, so it will fit in the current body. It just means more pixels in that sensor.

Gary

[Guest satrycon]

you're absolutely correct..if i take 12 shots..the last shot is visible in the EVF / LV till its all written..i prolly didn't  notice this before as i rarely shoot bursts and never more than 6-7

 

 

 

Are you blinded until the full buffer is written out?

With Auto Focus, if you half press the shutter, it cancels the image preview if images are still in the buffer.
If you then release the shutter button it will go back to showing the last image taken until the last image has been written out to card.
Contrast that to Manual focus and there is no way for the user to cancel the image preview until the buffer is written out.

I agree 95 MB cards make this issue less noticeable, however if the half press cancelled the image preview in Manual focus mode (like it does in AutoFocus), the whole camera operation would be much quicker.

After reading Jono Slack's article on using no focus aids to focus on the T, I just trust the EVF and don't use any focus aids.
I just wish the camera could keep up with me. It looks like it can but it is limited and this bug should have been fixed by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[haydenc]

you're absolutely correct..if i take 12 shots..the last shot is visible in the EVF / LV till its all written..i prolly didn't  notice this before as i rarely shoot bursts and never more than 6-7

Just to clarify, do you mean with your camera it only holds the image if you fill the entire buffer (12 shots)?

Or that it holds it with any number of shots?

(And as you take short bursts you never noticed before)

 

I have tested this on a few Ts with different firmwares.

However all I have tested have behaved the same way so far.

 

There is also the bug of if you take a shot and then immediately half press the shutter button, it will actually pause the processing of writing out to card for as long as you hold it. (Also blocking the view with the last image)

The timing on this is tricky but I always seem to get this.

With this is doesn't matter how many shots are in the buffer, you can get it to pause at any number.

[Guest satrycon]

only holds the last image once i take 12 shots, i tried with 4 shots and 6 shots, it goes to black and the counter [i see a counter at the bottom right] moves very fast and its ready to shoot almost immediately.. ....i never noticed this before as i said i rarely take bursts. i almost always take single shots

Edited August 15, 2016 by satrycon

[haydenc]

only holds the last image once i take 12 shots, i tried with 4 shots and 6 shots, it goes to black and the counter [i see a counter at the bottom right] moves very fast and its ready to shoot almost immediately.. ....i never noticed this before as i said i rarely take bursts. i almost always take single shots

Hey again. Thanks for replying.

 

When it is black and the counter is there, can you see through the view finder, or not until the last file is written?

 

My camera has the last image taken if there is any file in the buffer (1, 5 or 12)

Maybe the behaviour has changed in the last firmware.

I rarely use this camera, which is a real shame as I really like it. These issues has me always reaching for another camera.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest satrycon]

nope cant see though the EVF.

Hey again. Thanks for replying.

When it is black and the counter is there, can you see through the view finder, or not until the last file is written?

My camera has the last image taken if there is any file in the buffer (1, 5 or 12)
Maybe the behaviour has changed in the last firmware.
I rarely use this camera, which is a real shame as I really like it. These issues has me always reaching for another camera.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[haydenc]

nope cant see though the EVF.

 

 

Thanks again for confirming. 

 

I have a very early model T, and I thought maybe a later one might do it slightly differently. (not that I know when you got yours!)

 

I think for Leica to fix this issue, the best option would be to respect the users auto review settings no matter how many images are in the buffer and then go to live view.

If there are more than one image in the buffer, have the buffer count down still so you know how many images you have.

 

The way it works in Auto-focus is better, but not perfect. At least when you half press the shutter with images still in the buffer, it enables live view again. 

I plan to make a video of this behaviour so hopefully it will finally be addressed in firmware.

 

With all of the rumours surrounding the next model T, or T2, I really hope they address this big short coming with this camera. 

 

A lot of people have got the T and then moved it on quite quickly and gone back to something else thinking the camera was performing at optimal level.

It took me a long time to actually pin point where the T is falling short and to document it fully.

So I think the Ts performance has a lot more to give if these issues can be fixed up.

 

1. A user should not be able to pause processing of files to the card - manual focus only

 

2. In manual focus again - a half press of the shutter should cancel the image preview and return you to shooting ASAP

Or better yet, in Auto and Manual focus - to respect the users selected image review time and automatically enable live view with a buffer count down.

 

3. Exposure preview is on full time - the T needs the ability to turn it off. If you work with external light sources (flash) in manual focus mode, and also Manual exposure, you can set the camera to block out all ambient light so your shot is only lit by flash. However if you do this you are completely blinded in the LCD/EVF as it appears black. 

In Auto focus mode, when in this setting, at least when you half press the shutter button, it gains up the image to focus, then once you have locked focus, it goes back to simulating the exposure, when it goes completely black again. 

 

4. In the App for the T on the iPhone, it would be great to be able to swipe through the images. The SL app which is almost identical has enabled this functionality and it has greatly improved the app for me. 

 

I am sure there are other bugs/requests out there too, but these are the big ones for me. 

Number 4 above is not a big one, but 1, 2 and 3 are to me and every time I reach for the T, I am reminded of these issues and then select another camera. 

It is such a shame as I really love this camera, but it has had little use from me in the 2 years I have had it. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by haydenc

[jevidon]

 

3. Exposure preview is on full time - the T needs the ability to turn it off. If you work with external light sources (flash) in manual focus mode, and also Manual exposure, you can set the camera to block out all ambient light so your shot is only lit by flash. However if you do this you are completely blinded in the LCD/EVF as it appears black. 

In Auto focus mode, when in this setting, at least when you half press the shutter button, it gains up the image to focus, then once you have locked focus, it goes back to simulating the exposure, when it goes completely black again. 

 

 

 I believe that Leica intended the preview feature, or rather the screen to be on full time as that is the only way to access the camera's settings. They probably saw no sense in disabling the preview function since the screen is on full time for settings availability anyway.

[haydenc]

 

3. Exposure preview is on full time - the T needs the ability to turn it off. If you work with external light sources (flash) in manual focus mode, and also Manual exposure, you can set the camera to block out all ambient light so your shot is only lit by flash. However if you do this you are completely blinded in the LCD/EVF as it appears black. 

In Auto focus mode, when in this setting, at least when you half press the shutter button, it gains up the image to focus, then once you have locked focus, it goes back to simulating the exposure, when it goes completely black again. 

 

 

 I believe that Leica intended the preview feature, or rather the screen to be on full time as that is the only way to access the camera's settings. They probably saw no sense in disabling the preview function since the screen is on full time for settings availability anyway.

 

Hi, I am not sure what you mean.

What I was referring to is that if you manually set the exposure to be so under exposed, the screen/view finder is black, as it is simulating or previewing what the end shot will look like. The problem is that if you use a flash to add light so the image is properly exposed, the camera doesn't know about it. And you can't focus with a black screen...