Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
martinb

Thinking of selling my M8 and some lenses..

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've been thinking of selling my M8 for a little while now for some reasons..

 

1. I don't like the whole 6-bit and filter issue. Having to pay for filters as soon as you get a new lens and maybe also send it away for coding or buying other expensive accessories. I know that most lenses do fine without coding, but you can't trust them without filters.

2. Second issue and maybe the biggest for me, who want to go pro is that I would need a backup. 5000 USD for a backup is a lot of money. If I want backup I don't want a film camera as backup (would require buying film and a scanner) or another DSLR. I want an identical camera and that would be the M8. However, even if I got a second M8 I would probably need a DSLR for some stuff.

3. The M8 ain't much more discreet than a small DSLR and a compact digicam is even more discreet than both.

4. Fourth issue is that it's harder to get Leica M8's serviced compared to other cameras. There's really no other way than getting it sent to Solms.

 

With that said I have to say I love the camera but I don't feel safe to depend on it.

Your views would be interesting!

 

If you're interested in a used black M8 with grip, extra battery, filters, Summicron-M 35mm ASPH and Elmarit 21mm pre-ASPH give a serious offer over PM and maybe I'll consider it. Shipping would only be within the European Union. Just to let you know, I'm not 100% sure about selling yet though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

Martin not that it means anything at all because you may shoot different than me but i use it everyday on a Professional level and all the coding and filters are really meaningless to worry about. I just put the filters on and coded lenses and completley forgot about all that mess. Backup is backup and nothing better than the same camera but if you don't want that than a simple Canon with 2 zooms or Nikon and you should be fine. There not supposed to crash and burn. Okay but there not supposed too. Now am i nuts, I don't think so but some folks may. LOL

 

Back to work for me. Hard decision i know but as soon as you sell it you will kick yourself. To hard to give up these lenses and than add the M8 to the mix than it's real hard to sell. i said privately to Jono this morning via e-mail that i just don't think I could ever go back to a DSLR, I may but sure as hell don't want too. Good luck sleeping on this decision, not easy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Martin, I'm kind of lost by your statement that "but you can't trust them without filters". If your talking about black materials and magenta casts, well I'd tend to agree. But it's not so much of a problem that can't be addressed in post processing if filters weren't used. I'm kind of going off the idea of filters, even though I have them for all my lenses. I kind of agree with Jono about some colours being better without filters.

 

With regard to backup bodies, well if your going pro it's a must IMO. No matter if it's canon or Leica at least 2 bodies are needed not only as backup but also for flexability of shooting different focal lengths on the fly. Only you can decide if you have enough faith in the M8 as the tool of choice based on your experience of your existing M8 and if it's reliable enough going forward. I believe most of the early issues seem to have died down since the last FW update and while I have had practically no issues with my M8 in 8 months I would feel comfortable enough to rely on it for professional type assignments. But would it be the only Camera model I would choose if I were a working Pro, I don't think so. I'll qualify that by saying I'd prefer to have a "jack of all trades" 1DII & 1DsII and focal lengths to cover 16 - 400mm if I were a working pro and had not decided or specalised in a given field.

However the M8 would be well suited to documentary, wedding, street work but would be a little stretched in flexability outside this arena.

 

The discreet aspect of photography is more about the photographer than the equipment he uses, yes a M8 is far more discreet than a 1D & 70-200 IS for sure but it's more about your own body language & attitude that will make a subject feel uncomfortable long before the camera you use will.

 

With regard to service, for sure Canon's CPS is a worldwide network, but for me here in Ireland I'd still have to send via the UK. So makes little difference in this age of global express courier services UK or Germany. The only issues are time frames which I'd hope will seriously improve once Leica get of their back foot.

 

Either way, turning professional will require investment in the right tools for the jobs you have in mind and for those you may not have thought about but your clients expect. I'd suspect when you way up the outlay of a 2nd body and more glass to cover what your currently missing may prove to be far more expensive than other systems and something you'll have to work very hard with to get any return in the professional market place.

 

Good luck with your decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard decision i know but as soon as you sell it you will kick yourself. To hard to give up these lenses and than add the M8 to the mix than it's real hard to sell.

 

I once sold my only Leica, it was a M3 with 3 lenses (28, 50, 90), to buy something that I thought would be better. That was in 1974 and I didn't stop kicking myself in the butt for some odd 30 years until I bought another M3 and lenses.

 

Now that I have a M8, actually two of them, and my trusty old M3 with a nearly full line of lenses I could never think of selling any of them ever again. Well maybe when the M9 comes around I might sell one of the M8's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin: you are right about the coding and filters issues. You are also right about the cost for backup, and there is no question that CPS is more efficient than sending an M8 to Germany. Still, I would take Guy's advice and sleep on it. It is such a pleasure to work with the Leicas that it would hard to give them up. Regards. DR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are going professional, that means treating photography as a business. You can't have more money going out then coming in, so it may be the M8 system might be a little pricey for a start up business with limited revenues. It depends on the type of pro work you will be doing and how much business you have committed. Will you need a lighting kit, long lenses, macro, tilt-shift capabilities? You could back up the M8 with a DSLR so you more capabilities. There is no reason they have to be the same camera if you have a limited budget. A 24-70 zoom would serve to replace your primes in a pinch..

 

As much as I like the M8, if I had to use a Canon 5D or a Nikon D80 for budgetary reasons or because they had a capability I needed and couldn't swing 2 systems, I could still make images that satisfied my clients. Once the business is rolling you can always add an M8 (or M9 if it's further down the road).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Like was said above, had an M3 in the 70s, then move to SLRs, then to DSLRs and back with Leica. I have some problems with my M8 now that means it has to go back to Solms at some point, but it's not terminal so I can still use it at least. But this gives me the same concerns every one else has about reliability. So, my solution will be to buy another M8 as a backup (actually to use 2 side by side when on a shoot where time is limited). I picked up a Tri Elmar from a dealer today, and for the first time I was in a shop that had a Black M8 in stock and available. I didn't buy it. I am now wishing I had, because I am convinced I will buy a second within weeks anyway.

 

I still have my Canon DSLRs (1Ds2 & 1D2) and they get so little use now that if some one actually offered me realistic money, I could sell them tomorrow and not worry too much about it.

 

To me, the only things that DSLRs give me is acurate framing, but you pay for that in so many other ways. I shudder at the thought of carrying those things around again for hours at a time. I have had problems with DSLRs too (and SLRs for that matter), so the M8 is not unique. The big difference as you point out is that CPS had my body fixed and returned in 5 days, not 5 weeks.

 

However, the M8 is clearly not for everyone, and if the M8 does not suite you, either in the way you work with it, or how comfortable you feel relying on it etc etc, then there is little point holding on to it. You have to go with your gut instinct at times. Sleep on it some more, and think about why you were drawn to it in the first place. If those things still hold true, then you should keep it. If they don't, and perhaps you were mistaken, then the choice should be an obvious one. Good luck with your decision, I hope it's the right one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin,

A hard decision! For years I used Canon and lately Nikon as my primary Pro bodies, but I made the decision to sell all my DSLR gear in favour for the M8. The reason for that is that I mainly shoot landscapes, weddings and portraits and the M8 is the perfect camera for that, with a superb image-quality. It also saves me 10 Kgs in my backpack.

 

Good luck with your decision!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse. Being at a transitional point from amateur to professional and camera choices are two separate things. In other words, the presence or absence of a second body is not going to affect whether or not you are successful at making living from photography.

 

Not knowing what you photograph, or your intended market, I can't say whether or not the camera is appropriate. But I can say as a tool, it is a professional grade tool. If you go pro, it is likely to be one choice amongst many. When I started out, it was the Hasselblad, soon followed by a Mamiya 7 and then the Leica, and then 4x5...you get the picture. Your choices evolve over the assignments you are getting, your interests, and just how hard you want to make it for yourself to get the picture...(as in 8x10 on assignment:)) Sometimes you bring them all, other times just one. And that should be inspiring, it should offer a challenge and challenge your creativity. Using the same camera over and over is a good recipe for stagnation.

 

My advice is treat the camera on its own merits, if you like it, keep it, if not, sell it. As far as professional decisions go, it is only one choice among many you will have to make. In reality, there are many many other reliability issues you will have to confront, like media cards, readers, backup strategies, the quality of the coffee in the morning, all of those things have the potential to screw up a shoot just as easily as the M8. there are weak links all over. If you enjoy actually making pictures with the camera, that is the point, besides all the other crap. Labs used to drop film off hangers in the machine too, and sync cords stop working of their own accord. This forum gets overly concerned with nits when the point is when you are actually photographing-is it Fun? And especially as a pro, it needs to be fun, otherwise you will really really hate it, trust me. Answer that question and you will know what to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Martin not that it means anything at all because you may shoot different than me but i use it everyday on a Professional level and all the coding and filters are really meaningless to worry about. I just put the filters on and coded lenses and completley forgot about all that mess. Backup is backup and nothing better than the same camera but if you don't want that than a simple Canon with 2 zooms or Nikon and you should be fine. There not supposed to crash and burn. Okay but there not supposed too. Now am i nuts, I don't think so but some folks may. LOL

 

Back to work for me. Hard decision i know but as soon as you sell it you will kick yourself. To hard to give up these lenses and than add the M8 to the mix than it's real hard to sell. i said privately to Jono this morning via e-mail that i just don't think I could ever go back to a DSLR, I may but sure as hell don't want too. Good luck sleeping on this decision, not easy

 

Thanks Guy! As you say a DSLR with two lenses might be enough, but two identical cameras is preferred.

What you say about going back to a DSLR I've also felt sometimes actually, so it might be weird that this thread is coming from me. But you can also almost get a digital medium format kit for the price of two M8 bodies. On the other hand the quality I get from the M8 is probably enough for basically anything I will do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Eoin! Yes, I was talking about the magenta.

As working pro doesn't mean you shoot everything and I wouldn't want or need a Canon system with 16-400mm lenses. There are many pro's working with just one or two lenses.

However, I would maybe need a DSLR sometimes..

 

 

Hi Martin, I'm kind of lost by your statement that "but you can't trust them without filters". If your talking about black materials and magenta casts, well I'd tend to agree. But it's not so much of a problem that can't be addressed in post processing if filters weren't used. I'm kind of going off the idea of filters, even though I have them for all my lenses. I kind of agree with Jono about some colours being better without filters.

 

With regard to backup bodies, well if your going pro it's a must IMO. No matter if it's canon or Leica at least 2 bodies are needed not only as backup but also for flexability of shooting different focal lengths on the fly. Only you can decide if you have enough faith in the M8 as the tool of choice based on your experience of your existing M8 and if it's reliable enough going forward. I believe most of the early issues seem to have died down since the last FW update and while I have had practically no issues with my M8 in 8 months I would feel comfortable enough to rely on it for professional type assignments. But would it be the only Camera model I would choose if I were a working Pro, I don't think so. I'll qualify that by saying I'd prefer to have a "jack of all trades" 1DII & 1DsII and focal lengths to cover 16 - 400mm if I were a working pro and had not decided or specalised in a given field.

However the M8 would be well suited to documentary, wedding, street work but would be a little stretched in flexability outside this arena.

 

The discreet aspect of photography is more about the photographer than the equipment he uses, yes a M8 is far more discreet than a 1D & 70-200 IS for sure but it's more about your own body language & attitude that will make a subject feel uncomfortable long before the camera you use will.

 

With regard to service, for sure Canon's CPS is a worldwide network, but for me here in Ireland I'd still have to send via the UK. So makes little difference in this age of global express courier services UK or Germany. The only issues are time frames which I'd hope will seriously improve once Leica get of their back foot.

 

Either way, turning professional will require investment in the right tools for the jobs you have in mind and for those you may not have thought about but your clients expect. I'd suspect when you way up the outlay of a 2nd body and more glass to cover what your currently missing may prove to be far more expensive than other systems and something you'll have to work very hard with to get any return in the professional market place.

 

Good luck with your decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guy_mancuso

Martin if you jump in the MF world than you still run into backup for that, and there is none acceptable. Obviously another 20k back is not a answer, so even in this case you may want a DSLR or RF anyway. I fight this one too. Say you go H3 at 23k for back & body than 12k for lense . So that is 35 k just for ONE setup. backup than your looking at either another Hassy at 4k than what about the back , can't do it without a DSLR or RF system backing it all up. yes the M8 is not cheap by any stretch 9600 hundred for just the 2 bodies, than 12 k for a full suite of lenses . Can be cheaper but you see where I am going . MF sounds good on the initial purchase but there really is not a backup to it at low cost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed, David and Hank! I appreciate your input. Can't answer all replies though

 

Professionally I would probably do event work, maybe architecture, stock photography, maybe wedding and god knows. But I would work outside a studio and in available light 99% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To me it sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse. Being at a transitional point from amateur to professional and camera choices are two separate things. In other words, the presence or absence of a second body is not going to affect whether or not you are successful at making living from photography.

 

Not knowing what you photograph, or your intended market, I can't say whether or not the camera is appropriate. But I can say as a tool, it is a professional grade tool. If you go pro, it is likely to be one choice amongst many. When I started out, it was the Hasselblad, soon followed by a Mamiya 7 and then the Leica, and then 4x5...you get the picture. Your choices evolve over the assignments you are getting, your interests, and just how hard you want to make it for yourself to get the picture...(as in 8x10 on assignment:)) Sometimes you bring them all, other times just one. And that should be inspiring, it should offer a challenge and challenge your creativity. Using the same camera over and over is a good recipe for stagnation.

 

My advice is treat the camera on its own merits, if you like it, keep it, if not, sell it. As far as professional decisions go, it is only one choice among many you will have to make. In reality, there are many many other reliability issues you will have to confront, like media cards, readers, backup strategies, the quality of the coffee in the morning, all of those things have the potential to screw up a shoot just as easily as the M8. there are weak links all over. If you enjoy actually making pictures with the camera, that is the point, besides all the other crap. Labs used to drop film off hangers in the machine too, and sync cords stop working of their own accord. This forum gets overly concerned with nits when the point is when you are actually photographing-is it Fun? And especially as a pro, it needs to be fun, otherwise you will really really hate it, trust me. Answer that question and you will know what to do.

 

Thanks a lot for your input!

You have a point that there's different tools of the trade, but much less so now in the age of digital. What you get out of any 10mp DSLR or M8 is good enough for almost anything. For rare occasions you can rent digital MF gear instead. With film the different formats were much more needed then they are today.

If I would be using film today I definetely get both a good 35mm kit and MF kit. Not as cheap with digital though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Robert Wright. If you are turning Pro, and like the camera, keep it. Considering the hurdles before you, which camera system you have might turn out to be the least important thing to consider; so you may as well have camera equipment you enjoy.

 

................Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Very hard decision indeed. But let's look at it this way... do you want to go pro with a D80?... nop! a 400D? nop! so likely to be a 5D or higher so 2 X US$3000 = US$6000 for your 2 new pro bodies.... and still no lenses to attach to it. You already have 3 quater of a full pro kit, you "just miss and extra M8". If I were you I'd get a bridge such as a Panasonic FZ50 (or Leica equivalent) and when you get some more money, get a second M8 or M9 when it arrives.

 

The PanaLeica camera will be great backup and with a 420mm max focal length it will cover things you cannot do with the M8. If you M8 goes down :-( your FZ50 will save your ass in the meanwhile. This way you have a backup camera for affordable price (still a pro look, this is important for clients) and no need to invest in lenses.

 

I am sure after you get a few clients you'll be very happy to have 2 M8 + a FZ50 :-)

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Martin if you jump in the MF world than you still run into backup for that, and there is none acceptable. Obviously another 20k back is not a answer, so even in this case you may want a DSLR or RF anyway. I fight this one too. Say you go H3 at 23k for back & body than 12k for lense . So that is 35 k just for ONE setup. backup than your looking at either another Hassy at 4k than what about the back , can't do it without a DSLR or RF system backing it all up. yes the M8 is not cheap by any stretch 9600 hundred for just the 2 bodies, than 12 k for a full suite of lenses . Can be cheaper but you see where I am going . MF sounds good on the initial purchase but there really is not a backup to it at low cost

 

Guy,

You're so right. Would be very expensive to back up. Still I think that there's digital MF systems that are good except the new Hassy H stuff. The Hassy V system is pretty nice. I've used it a little with a Lightphase and P20 back. The P20 back is really nice, but lot of crop though. The new Mamiya back is looking interesting and their glass is cheap compared to Hassy and Leica. But point taken, impossible to back up digital MF except if backing up with film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Chris!

 

Eric,

You have a point, but price levels for pro level cameras have gotten a lot lower. I could use the Pentax K10D or D200 for pro use and they're not expensive at all.

I wouldn't consider the FZ50 as backup. I would rather bring film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Ed, David and Hank! I appreciate your input. Can't answer all replies though

 

Professionally I would probably do event work, maybe architecture, stock photography, maybe wedding and god knows. But I would work outside a studio and in available light 99% of the time.

 

For these stated areas, the M8 is wonderful, depending on your approach. For architecture, depending on client needs, the wides available for the M8 make it a great tool. It is not going to replace what you could do with large format, but for an editorial look, it would be great imo. I have lost touch with what the mainstream of architectural work is now, my very first assisting gigs in Toronto were with a great architectural shooter bob burley, and it was all 4x5 and gelling interior lights. Not fun. (he was fun) I do little interior shoots now for NYT-and it is all M8. Just got the cv15.

 

Stock you could pretty much do with anything, except the Getty 50mb benchmark means up-res-ing M8 files. As a backup, the 5D would be hard to beat here with a couple zooms.

 

I am with you "outside the studio", my studio for the past 10 years has been "wherever I find myself" and inevitably what happens is I do the setup shot, cover what the client needs, and then I pull out something else, and use the available light, and many times that is what they go with. What the M8 does is make it possible for me to do the setup shot at 160, and the handheld at 640. But this would be true of the canikor way too. The caveat being I like Leica glass better than I like other brands wide open. For me, the is was most of the attraction.

 

The new mamiya back makes the "cheese more binding" as my grandfather used to say-a major breakthrough in price. I really hope it puts price pressure on phase and leaf to lower the price of their backs, I have a 503cw waiting for that 5000$ 22mp near full frame back. And that would be the bees knees to me-come full circle to shooting the setup shot on digital with the hassy and then going to the Leica for the handheld stuff. seems the magic number is 5000?

 

But I think having two of the same thing is not necessarily the best approach, I would get tired if I had to look through the world in a 35mm frame all the time. Still praying for the digital Mamiya 7!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Chris!

 

Eric,

You have a point, but price levels for pro level cameras have gotten a lot lower. I could use the Pentax K10D or D200 for pro use and they're not expensive at all.

I wouldn't consider the FZ50 as backup. I would rather bring film.

 

Well I understand your point, and the D200 is surely a great camera for the price it costs. I haven't seen the other 2 personnaly.

 

What I would not do is film, 2 reasons:

 

1- many clients now want digital only.

2- if you are used to digital and the the fact that you can immediatly know more or less the result, would leave me sleepless until I see how the roll of film came out :-)

 

My point with FZ or Vlux was to save as much money as possible until a second M8 could be afforded. A bridge, any brand is a way of not having to invest in a second family of lenses that would not be compatible with the M8, save weight etc.

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy