Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[frame-it]

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a lot of users in Asia...and who mostly don't care about prices..HK/Taiwan/Japan are loaded with leica users..and China as well..

 

old thread but probably way more significant now >>

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=134367

 

hence >

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.finanznachrichten.de%2Fnachrichten-2016-04%2F36964723-leica-macht-rekordumsatz-expansion-im-smartphone-markt-geplant-003.htm&edit-text=

 

 

 

 

 

The concept of the T was/is pretty clear.  It is a camera for IPhone users who want to move up to a "real camera" but still keep the familiarity of an iPhone like interface.

 

As such it doesn't need an EVF nor a flash...

 

With the TL2 Leica, for good or for bad, religiously stuck to its form factor, its design principles, ignored (a large group of) users who wanted an integrated EVF and even removed the little pop-up flash...

 

Are iPhone users really migrating to the T?  Are they willing to pay $2-3K for an APS-C lens?  Not sure...  but Leica surely continues to think so...

 

I have the impression that a lot of the people in the T forum at least shoot 1 or 2 other Leica cameras but perhaps the forum does not give a good idea of the diversity of T shooters...

 

[LD_50]

Agree with that 100%.

 

Maybe Leica keeps demand low in order not to stretch own resources by making cameras like TL2. Lets get real, this is 2017 and digital has been round for some time now including EVF technology. Who really wants a digital system or even compact camera without built in viewfinder of one kind or other, maybe someone who buys for the sake of Red Dot?

The TL concept with EVF is called the SL. Sensor size doesn't make the body much larger.

 

The Q with interchangeable lenses is also called the SL. Sony demonstrated first with the RX1 that without interchangeable lenses you can build a very small FF camera by burying the lens in the body and utilizing software corrections for distortion.

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[LocalHero1953]

The TL concept with EVF is called the SL. Sensor size doesn't make the body much larger.

 

The Q with interchangeable lenses is also called the SL. Sony demonstrated first with the RX1 that without interchangeable lenses you can build a very small FF camera by burying the lens in the body and utilizing software corrections for distortion.

You are 100% correct, with one proviso: at the the present moment!

One thing I am also sure about: Leica has lots of ideas for developing L-mount cameras going forward.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The concept of the T was/is pretty clear.  It is a camera for IPhone users who want to move up to a "real camera" but still keep the familiarity of an iPhone like interface.

 

As such it doesn't need an EVF nor a flash...

 

 

 

If phone users don't need/want a flash how come every smart phone has added one in the last couple of years?

 

Simply Leica needed the space and didn't want to do a body re-design. I think it was a mistake and it will once again limit TL sales.

 

Gordon

 

Gordon

[LD_50]

Part of the reason for smartphone flash is it doubles as a flashlight. I almost never use the flash for the camera but use the flashlight daily.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Part of the reason for smartphone flash is it doubles as a flashlight. I almost never use the flash for the camera but use the flashlight daily.

 

I do too. But that came later. Before the phone had a flashlight function it was for the camera and then some smart cookie made an app that turned it on as a light.

 

Fact remains if Leica were truly copying the phone functionality the TL2 would have some form of flash or LED.

 

A small LED bar will ultimately be what I get for my TL2, if I can find a tiny one. And maybe a velcro tab on top of the EVF to hold it in place for one hand operation.

 

Gordon

[LD_50]

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I agree the small fill flash is useful on these cameras.

[CYBORA]

Any X1D adapter for M mount available ?  I saw an ebay link for an adapter for using M lenses on X1D, but it was sold out and I cannot find any information on Google for the adapter. My keyword searches gave me nothing.

[Marac]

Any X1D adapter for M mount available ?  I saw an ebay link for an adapter for using M lenses on X1D, but it was sold out and I cannot find any information on Google for the adapter. My keyword searches gave me nothing.

I very much doubt this adapter exists, I cannot see it working at all. I'm no engineer but it seems like an impossibility to me to use M lenses on the X1D.

[SrMi]

I very much doubt this adapter exists, I cannot see it working at all. I'm no engineer but it seems like an impossibility to me to use M lenses on the X1D.

There is a Kipon adapter for M lenses on X1D. Since Hasselblad added an electronic shutter to X1D, all kind of adapters are now possible. As X1D sensor's readout time is 300ms (quite slow), its usability is limited.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

M lenses on the X1D don't interest me at all. Now, if there was an adaptor for XPan lenses........

 

Gordon

 

p.s. I have ordered the EF adaptor. It'll be interesting to see how it goes with my Canon TS lenses.

[wellfleet]

At the Hasselblad Forum people are beginning to explore M lenses on the X1D. http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=5313.0

Edited November 6, 2017 by wellfleet

[IkarusJohn]

At the Hasselblad Forum people are beginning to explore M lenses on the X1D. http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=5313.0

 

 

What would be the point?  Without doing the maths, cropping the 50c sensor to full frame is hardly going to give you a benefit over using an SL, is it?

[wellfleet]

What would be the point?  Without doing the maths, cropping the 50c sensor to full frame is hardly going to give you a benefit over using an SL, is it?

 

 

Did you read the forum?

What crop? The claim is that it's full sensor coverage and minimal vignetting, but he didn't say which focal length he was using. He also said that the 50 lux ASPH works well.

Hopefully he'll post some samples. The poster is also a member here, so maybe he'll chime in.

 

No crop. Image is full size.

I was also surprised to find out that the vignetting was not that dramatic.

The X1D images give you much more reserve when you want to crop your image.

X1D skin colors are better  then Leica for sure.

[IkarusJohn]

Did you read the forum?

What crop? The claim is that it's full sensor coverage and minimal vignetting, but he didn't say which focal length he was using. He also said that the 50 lux ASPH works well.

Hopefully he'll post some samples. The poster is also a member here, so maybe he'll chime in.

 

No crop. Image is full size.

I was also surprised to find out that the vignetting was not that dramatic.

The X1D images give you much more reserve when you want to crop your image.

X1D skin colors are better  then Leica for sure.

 

No, I didn't - I just assumed that the image circle wouldn't cover the entire 50c sensor.  I find it odd that it does without vignetting - considering how image sharpness drops toward the edges on most M lenses on a full frame sensor (excluding telecentric lenses, I guess), I'm still not sure I see the point.

 

Interesting idea, though - and surprising that the 50 Lux ASPH "works well" - according to the MTF graphs, once you're towards the edges of 35mm film format, resolution, distortion and vignetting don't look that flash.

 

Doesn't Hasselblad provide good lenses anyway?

Edited November 6, 2017 by IkarusJohn

[wellfleet]

No, I didn't - I just assumed that the image circle wouldn't cover the entire 50c sensor.  I find it odd that it does without vignetting - considering how image sharpness drops toward the edges on most M lenses on a full frame sensor (excluding telecentric lenses, I guess), I'm still not sure I see the point.

 

Interesting idea, though - and surprising that the 50 Lux ASPH "works well" - according to the MTF graphs, once you're towards the edges of 35mm film format, resolution, distortion and vignetting don't look that flash.

 

Doesn't Hasselblad provide good lenses anyway?

 

Those are questions for those who own an X1D, I don't. I suspect samples will appear soon, as the notion of using non-native lenses seem to be in vogue.

[LD_50]

It’s hard to believe M lenses perform well covering the larger sensor of the X1D. It will be interesting to see examples.

 

Even if IQ is decent, the limited sensor readout speed (300 ms) and high ISO limit (3200) when using the electronic shutter would likely make use of M lenses something I would avoid.

[frame-it]

Leica R lenses perform beautifully on RED Dragon and Weapon

 

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?112329-LEICA-R-on-RED-Pictures/page59

 

 

It’s hard to believe M lenses perform well covering the larger sensor of the X1D. It will be interesting to see examples.

 

[IkarusJohn]

Leica R lenses perform beautifully on RED Dragon and Weapon

 

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?112329-LEICA-R-on-RED-Pictures/page59

 

Hardly surprising - the RED Weapon Dragon has a sensor size of 30.7mm x 15.8mm and the Weapon Monstro 40.96mm x 21.60mm

 

Whereas the X1D sensor is 43.8mm x 32.9mm

 

If your lens is designed for a 36mm x 24mm full frame, 35mm format, I'm not surprised the image circle is enough to stretch out to 41mm (though, the link you posted didn't mention whether or not the image had been cropped, and it?).

 

I love the idea of using M lenses on RED cameras - but even the Epic requires a commitment to photography that is, frankly, beyond my available time and inclination.  Perhaps to stave off dementia, I will teach myself about video when I have more time!

Edited November 7, 2017 by IkarusJohn

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[LD_50]

Leica R lenses perform beautifully on RED Dragon and Weapon

 

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?112329-LEICA-R-on-RED-Pictures/page59

I’m not sure what is intended to be the relevance of this statement. The RED sensors are not the same size as the X1D.

 

Fred Miranda forum has some user reports of the 50 APO and 90 APO M lenses on the Fuji GFX (same size sensor as X1D) with not favorable results. R80 f1.4 is said to work well.