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Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D


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https://www.hasselblad.com/press/press-releases/hasselblad-expands-the-lens-range-for-the-x1d-50c/

 

The 80 will be the fastest, speed not yet specified.

 

Jeff

 

Which results in an equivalent fov of 67mm, right?  Not so good for a single lens system ...

 

The 21/4 (18mm fov) could be interesting, but it might be more useful at f/2.8 (I loved the 15/2.8 Distagon, but the red edges drove me away).

 

I wonder what the 80mm aperture will be ...

Edited by IkarusJohn
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Roughly .8x FOV factor, so about 64mm.

 

The 21 (under 17 equivalent) was changed from previously announced 22 due to customer feedback.

 

The 80 lens aperture won’t be revealed until later this year, so all we know is that it will be faster than f2.

 

Jeff

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Re: sizing

The size is a bit bigger than the SL+M lens, and definitely bigger than an M7

However it's in the ballpark.. and the handling/weight/balance are similar

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I don't have any native SL lenses to compare to, though you can imagine how much longer those are

Of course I can put a much slimmer lens on the M and make the whole package smaller but that's not the point here 

Note the X1D is wearing the 45mm.  

The 30mm is ~10% longer, and the 90mm is ~33% longer.  The 120mm is 2x longer, unsurprisingly.

 

 
 

Now whats fun is when you bring it back to its own weight class

Compare it to the only other mirrorless MF, the Fuji GFX
Suddenly the X1D feels more similar to the M/SL+M lens size class

Do note the GFX is much lighter than it looks and weight wise feels similar to the X1D

 

I saw some PhaseOne/Hassy H6D/etc MF cameras next to the X1D this weekend and it's like a Fiat 500 next to a Chevy Suburban.. neat.

 

Of course as hobbyists we compare these 2 cameras due to price range/desirability/fun, but for pros I'd think they have very different use cases.

 

SL just feels faster, quieter and the EVF is still worlds best.  

  It seems focused on optimal optical performance at the expense of size/weight, unlike Leica M.

 

X1D is slower, but almost in the way an M240 is.. its shutter is surprisingly loud, and the EVF is trailing the pack.

  The lenses are a tradeoff of performance/speed vs size/weight, like Leica M.

  Oddly, for Leica M users contemplating an SL.. the X1D may be more appropriate, philosophically.. if you aren't wedded to using your M lenses on it.

 

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From my personal shooting&shopping some weight comparisons...
SL+SL 24-90/2.8-4                  1990g
SL+SL 50/1.4                           1920g
SL+Madapt+VC 40/1.2            1445g 
SL+Madapt+Summarit 35/2.4 1325g 
X1D+45/3.5                              1269g
M240+thumbsup/grip+50/1.4  1025g

OMD EM1 +17/1.2                      964g

OMD EM1 +12-40                       956g

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From my personal shooting&shopping some weight comparisons...
SL+SL 24-90/2.8-4                  1990g
SL+SL 50/1.4                           1920g
SL+Madapt+VC 40/1.2            1445g 
SL+Madapt+Summarit 35/2.4 1325g 
X1D+45/3.5                              1269g
M240+thumbsup/grip+50/1.4  1025g

OMD EM1 +17/1.2                      964g

OMD EM1 +12-40                       956g

 

 

I wonder what the X1D zoom will weigh? Surely it will be a lot lighter than the SL 24-90.

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I'm guessing the zoom won't be too heavy as the focal range and aperture are not too aggressive...

 

The weight of the upcoming Hasselblad XCD "fast 80mm".. which is as close to a FF 50/1.4 as we may get.. will be interesting.

Should be lighter than SL 50/1.4 .. but who knows.

 

One thing that really stuck out - the weight creep on the "pro m4/3" kit !!

Unless you are a telephoto shooter or video shooter, the system doesn't make as much sense from a price/size/weight perspective anymore.. versus say.. Sony.

Of course you get some of the best IBIS and true weather sealing with Olympus, so it all depends on your needs.

I didn't like the general control scheme on the Sonys, I find Hasselblad to be close enough to Leica minimalism.

 

Adding to above list the dreaded Sony kit weights 

A7rIII + 50/1.4       1435g

A9 + 24-70/2.8      1560g

A7III + 50/1.8          840g

A7III + 35/2.8          770g

A7S  + 35/2.8         610g 

 

And you can now adapt H lenses to X1D with AF so 

X1D+Hadapt+100/2.2  1680g

 

X1D+Hadapt+80/2.8    1200g
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Well, the XC120mm weighs 970g. I don't see the zoom weighing less than that as it's bigger and more complex. It'll be less than the 35-90HC which is 1400g. I hope it's good. I'm really looking forward to it and don't need a disappointment like the 1250 gram Leica 30-90 S.

 

I have the HC100mm. On the X1D the AF works fine but the balance is off (adaptor means all the weight is on the nose). So the SL and 50mm 1.4 *feel* lighter and better balanced. Weight is one thing but it needs to be balanced or it'll still feel heavy. The SL has really good balance and weight distribution. As do the X1D natives, so far.

 

And it'll be 300 grams lighter with the 'crons.

 

As for the X1D there's a 65mm 2.8 coming as a smaller faster *normal* lens. I like that the fastest lens is a short tele (80mm) as it suits me. I'm sure other wished for a fast wide. You can handhold the X1D at ludicrous speeds though. That's what good balance and ergonomics does, combined with a leaf shutter.

 

Gordon

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I mentioned earlier that I prefer the design elegance and handling/grip of the X1D to the SL, and frankly to most any camera these days.

 

Well it seems that the SL will evolve its design going forward.

 

Kevin Raber at LuLa just posted his interview with Dr. Andreas Kaufmann and Kaufmann commented on the SL design. He said that the first iteration was “a bit brutal....like with an axe”, but that in the future it would be “a bit more elegant”. Good news IMO.

 

Kaufmann also said that the L mount provided more opportunities than currently exists with the TL, SL and CL, and that this will become evident in June, 2018. I don’t know what that suggests, but will be interesting. He separately referred to the S as a medium format DSLR, so it wouldn’t seem as though he was hinting at a mirrorless S.

 

Jeff

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I expect the SL won’t see any resolution increase until the S moves ahead first as the flagship MP-wise. And it also seems that the SL is on a 4 year product cycle, which would mean 2019. But Leica can surprise.

 

Jeff

 

The other factor one needs to consider is when Leica needs to secure the supply of higher resolution sensors from sensor maker. Leica cannot act independently on product launch timing. It is just like the 4.4 mil pix resolution EVF in SL. Leica needs the right sensor for the next SL2 launch plus AF capability upgrade (now available after Panasonic G9 launched).

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I wish that the XCD zoom won’t telescope when zooming like the SL 24-90, but expect that it will.

 

Jeff

 

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Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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  • 2 weeks later...

well, the GFX 50 R is apparently coming soon, at a rumored price point of under 4k $, and size of a bloated Xpro2..so that should be interesting.

 

It's still going to have a focal plane shutter, with all the advantages and disadvantages that comes with that. Flange distance is fixed. They'll need a spot for that big battery, unless they have a different one (yuck). And sorting heat distribution. So it won't be smaller or lighter than the X1D. The X1D ergonomics are pretty much perfect so it'll be interesting if a scaled up XPro 2 handles well without a grip (Mamyia 7II ripoff??). And mini MF lenses will still need to be a certain size.

 

But USD4K is certainly going to get more people into the system. The X1D body is now AUD10K (2K off) and I suspect they'll keep it and drop the price further when the X2D arrives.

 

Gordon

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im guessing it will be almost the same size as the X1D.

 

It's still going to have a focal plane shutter, with all the advantages and disadvantages that comes with that. Flange distance is fixed. They'll need a spot for that big battery, unless they have a different one (yuck). And sorting heat distribution. So it won't be smaller or lighter than the X1D. The X1D ergonomics are pretty much perfect so it'll be interesting if a scaled up XPro 2 handles well without a grip (Mamyia 7II ripoff??). And mini MF lenses will still need to be a certain size.

 

But USD4K is certainly going to get more people into the system. The X1D body is now AUD10K (2K off) and I suspect they'll keep it and drop the price further when the X2D arrives.

 

Gordon

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I wish that the XCD zoom won’t telescope when zooming like the SL 24-90, but expect that it will.

 

Jeff

Just noted that unlike the SL 24-90, the SL 16-35 maintains constant length, as the 90-280.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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  • 4 weeks later...

I finally said yes to trying the X1D. The sales guy was very sure I would get a case of GAS. I did, but resisted. In the brief 10 minutes with it, I can understand why it's so attractive. Hasselblad has done a really good job. Love it.

Edited by lx1713
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