Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Succisa75]

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How do the new SL Summicrons compare with the X1D lenses? How are the skin tones?

I’ve tried both the new SL Summicron Lenses and the X1D lenses.

 

The Summicron lenses are spectacular and I would say better the X1D lenses and roughly the same size. I would say the Zeiss Otus would be a better comparison. The X1D lenses are great lenses but the Summicrons are just better in my opinion.

 

While a lens can enhance an image good and bad, from my experience the sensor is a big part of how the image is rendered. I find the skin tone colors to be slightly warmer on the X1D in RAW format. Not a big difference but notieable.

[Chaemono]

I just posted some with the 90 Summicron-SL here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287664-sl-50-lux-75-cron-or-twiddle-thumbs-for-sl-50-cron/page-4

 

One can only imagine how the SL primes will perform on the SL2.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Chaemono

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[ymc226]

I just posted some with the 90 Summicron-SL here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287664-sl-50-lux-75-cron-or-twiddle-thumbs-for-sl-50-cron/page-4

 

One can only imagine how the SL primes will perform on the SL2.

 

 

I tried the SL 50 Lux and the 75 SL Cron at the Leica store in Washington DC several weekends ago and liked both not withstanding the size difference but prefer the 50m FOV.  I got the 50 Lux and like the rendering very much.  I put my name on the on the list for the 35 SL Cron but am wondering if a 35 Lux is in the cards.  I would prefer a 35 Lux or a 28 Cron.  What are the chances of those coming to market?

[IkarusJohn]

I’m rather hoping for a 28 Summilux-SL.

Edited September 9, 2018 by IkarusJohn

[ropo54]

I just posted some with the 90 Summicron-SL here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/287664-sl-50-lux-75-cron-or-twiddle-thumbs-for-sl-50-cron/page-4

 

One can only imagine how the SL primes will perform on the SL2.

 

As much as I love your 75 Noctilux photos, the SL 90 mm are magnificent!

[Chaemono]

As much as I love your 75 Noctilux photos, the SL 90 mm are magnificent!

Thanks, Rob. Let’s not forget that the whole catwalk was lit. It’s not available light photography. Only at the end of the catwalk there was this terrible yellow light which shone directly into the models’ faces. The effect was, actually, good as long as there was sunlight and they weren't too close to it. The M10 pictures here were with what little light was there which wasn’t much: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-ThBZL6/.

 

Edit: And in the first four of the models on the catwalk with the 75 Noctilux from the previous afternoon, shutter speed was too slow. They were taken later in the day after the sun had disappeared. There is motion blur.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Chaemono

[Jared]

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I felt attracted by the X1d at least two times and just recently I tried it again. It is just not for me. The sensor is fantastic, as are the looks and form factor. But the handling experience is frustrating. Of course my older 2.2/100 can only be used in MF mode because its firmware chip memory does not allow for the latest update. Fast lenses can only be used with the electronic shutter. No flash. 300ms readout time. Electronic viewfinder is not up to a medium format body. The list menu looks like an Android UI prototype. Battery life is mediocre. My S2 (!) is so much ahead of this I cannot believe it. No issue focussing the 2.2/100. Amazing.

 

But then - for those wanting options in the mirrorless full frame market: it is coming. Nikon, Panasonic and now Canon.

One or two corrections... The X1D uses Nikon protocols for flash, so you can get modern TTL capabilities using a Nikon branded or Profoto flash. I’d argue that’s a much stronger flash solution than any current Leica.

 

Personally, I like the handling and the menu. Both Leica and Hasselblad are minimalist in their controls—as opposed to Fujifilm, the obvious competitor for smaller medium format.

 

I agree about the viewfinder—it’s functional but not even close to the standard set by the SL. The X1D is a slow camera, but it is well suited for certain subjects and types of photography. And, oh, the files are amazing. It does a great job holding colors into the finest details and the prints I get are a noticeable improvement on my SL—but only if printing large or cropping or “pushing” the file heavily in post.

[helged]

One or two corrections... The X1D uses Nikon protocols for flash, so you can get modern TTL capabilities using a Nikon branded or Profoto flash. I’d argue that’s a much stronger flash solution than any current Leica.

 

Personally, I like the handling and the menu. Both Leica and Hasselblad are minimalist in their controls—as opposed to Fujifilm, the obvious competitor for smaller medium format.

 

I agree about the viewfinder—it’s functional but not even close to the standard set by the SL. The X1D is a slow camera, but it is well suited for certain subjects and types of photography. And, oh, the files are amazing. It does a great job holding colors into the finest details and the prints I get are a noticeable improvement on my SL—but only if printing large or cropping or “pushing” the file heavily in post.

 

 

Given that there are practical limitations for how large prints most of us ever will do - in contrast to the present mp race - one would think that we are in a transition period with diminishing returns. Or put otherwise: When the SL2 is out with +/- 50 mp (in 2019?), +/- 100 mp sensors from other vendors will (likely) be present, but the difference for many/most users will not be significant. Add the  o u t s t a n d i n g  SL optics, and the future of the SL system looks quite bright for me.

 

Yes, the SL-system is expensive (and it will likely remain so).

Yes, the af will likely lag other systems (but it will likely be improved upon).

Yes, the flash protocol lags behind (should be possible to upgrade, one would think).

Yes, tethering/app connection could have been better/more stable (fixable, one would think).

Yes, the SL lacks more specialist primes (macro, t/s, tele, extender(s), but some will likely come in the not too distant future).

 

But for 'ordinary' shooting in the focal range 16-280mm, the SL delivers today. And even more so tomorrow.

[mmradman]

Given that there are practical limitations for how large prints most of us ever will do - in contrast to the present mp race - one would think that we are in a transition period with diminishing returns. Or put otherwise: When the SL2 is out with +/- 50 mp (in 2019?), +/- 100 mp sensors from other vendors will (likely) be present, but the difference for many/most users will not be significant. Add the  o u t s t a n d i n g  SL optics, and the future of the SL system looks quite bright for me.

 

Yes, the SL-system is expensive (and it will likely remain so).

Yes, the af will likely lag other systems (but it will likely be improved upon).

Yes, the flash protocol lags behind (should be possible to upgrade, one would think).

Yes, tethering/app connection could have been better/more stable (fixable, one would think).

Yes, the SL lacks more specialist primes (macro, t/s, tele, extender(s), but some will likely come in the not too distant

But for 'ordinary' shooting in the focal range 16-280mm, the SL delivers today. And even more so tomorrow.

A lot you say I agree, I like my SL and results I am getting, however let’s move forward with open mind, system is young and promising but there are many areas for short term and long term improvement, I suppose some could even be achieved with FW updates like LNER or file compression.

 

For a start a two-three year look ahead lens road map would provide some clarity which way SL system is heading. After Summicron 35 and 50mm see daylight (when?) what comes next and when?

 

Apart from Mp there are several areas where Leica can make improvements, some of holdbacks seem to be kind of ideological.

1) User selectable LENR, Leica users are supposed to be grownups.

2) Perhaps own flash system is good business marking up heavily other vendor equipment but it lags behind Nikon or Canon. How about making it open system.

3) Having option to compress losslessly RAW files is a big deal, memory may be cheaper by the day but half a size is better than full size.

4) people rave about DMR images which were 16bit, how about bringing 16 bit back to full frame.

 

I don’t have interest into video but Nikon Z7 is interesting illustration which way integration of still and video is going, so how about full frame 4K?

[Likaleica]

I followed this thread at the beginning and, suffering from gas, decided to get the X1D kit.  It is a great camera but after 6 months of use, it's just not for me.  I prefer manual lenses on the SL to the X1D, and for most of my photography I prefer the M to the SL.  I just like a simple, mechanical camera.  And I rarely need more than 24MP.  If anyone is interested I have it listed on eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hasselblad-X1D-50c-Medium-Format-Mirrorless-Digital-Camera-and-Lenses-Field-Kit/253853840957?hash=item3b1ade363d:g:cTMAAOSwSZBbgxLY

 

X1D composite time-lapse* during the Perseid meteor shower, "starring" a meteorite, the milky way, Saturn, Mars, the moon, the Sawtooth Wilderness and Little Redfish Lake.

 

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*Technical details:  30mm lens.  Milky Way was 5 separate 8 second exposures stacked using Starry Landscape Stacker to eliminate star trails and reduce noise.  That was blended with an exposure that included a meteor (once you see one it's too late to press the shutter release, so you have to take exposures all night long.  Like 8 hours).  Mars and Saturn were in the milky way exposures.  The mood and the landscape were made late dusk at 1/500 sec and then layered onto the other exposures.  This kind of photograph is not possible without layering.  It's a time-lapse photograph, similar to what Stephen Wilkes has been doing for National Geographic.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Likaleica

[helged]

A lot you say I agree, I like my SL and results I am getting, however let’s move forward with open mind, system is young and promising but there are many areas for short term and long term improvement, I suppose some could even be achieved with FW updates like LNER or file compression.

 

For a start a two-three year look ahead lens road map would provide some clarity which way SL system is heading. After Summicron 35 and 50mm see daylight (when?) what comes next and when?

 

Apart from Mp there are several areas where Leica can make improvements, some of holdbacks seem to be kind of ideological.

1) User selectable LENR, Leica users are supposed to be grownups.

2) Perhaps own flash system is good business marking up heavily other vendor equipment but it lags behind Nikon or Canon. How about making it open system.

3) Having option to compress losslessly RAW files is a big deal, memory may be cheaper by the day but half a size is better than full size.

4) people rave about DMR images which were 16bit, how about bringing 16 bit back to full frame.

 

I don’t have interest into video but Nikon Z7 is interesting illustration which way integration of still and video is going, so how about full frame 4K?

 

 

With the official announcement of S3 - that cannot be too far off - we will get the answer regarding mandatory or optionally LENR. I am optimistic that LENR can be switched off based on pervious SL software testing (but without any form of info from the inner circles at Wetzlar).

[frame-it]

anyways.... >>

 

https://photorumors.com/2018/09/08/first-leaked-details-on-the-upcoming-fuji-gfx-50r-affordable-medium-format-mirrorless-camera/

[jaapv]

Well, yes - 50 nice MPs, undoubtedly first-class IQ,  but with a stick-out lump LCD, incl. batteries and EVF well over 900 grams. Hmmm.. Nice price, Hasselblad should worry.

 

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujifilm_gfx_50s/features/page_03.html

[Photon42]

One or two corrections... The X1D uses Nikon protocols for flash, so you can get modern TTL capabilities using a Nikon branded or Profoto flash. I’d argue that’s a much stronger flash solution than any current Leica.

.

 

 

Jared

 

sorry for not being clear. The flash comment was strictly related to the electronic shutter only and probably stems from my frustration that non HB lenses can only with with the E-Shutter and its current, strong limitations. I totally agree the flash implementation from Leica sucks. And I have no idea why they do not team up with one of the larger companies out there to have proper wireless HSS sync implemented for the SL/CL/M in their controllers. The flash offerings from Leica just aren't good enough. I know what Hasselblad did. Good move, but then Nikon is also not a direct competitor. This is different with Leica.

 

Cheers

Ivo

[Photon42]

Nice price, Hasselblad should worry.

 

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujifilm_gfx_50s/features/page_03.html

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

... exactly like the Fuji X-E3 camera but larger

 

And the XE-3 looks nice, too.

[tom0511]

I use and like both options and for me it is clear that a) the SL is much faster than the x1d and b ) the x1d images have that MF-IQ and look which the SL does not reach, even though the SL-primes are excellent.

So I stand that these are not really alternatives but different approaches.

If the x2d will have fast startup and reduced blackout .....

Edited September 10, 2018 by tom0511

[frame-it]

those links are for the normal gfx50s

Well, yes - 50 nice MPs, undoubtedly first-class IQ,  but with a stick-out lump LCD, incl. batteries and EVF well over 900 grams. Hmmm.. Nice price, Hasselblad should worry.

 

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/gfx/fujifilm_gfx_50s/features/page_03.html

[jaapv]

those links are for the normal gfx50s

You're right, so they are.   However, the sensor appears to be the same 50 MP one, the EVF moved inside. Probably doesn't change the argument, the final word will be in two weeks time

[frame-it]

yep..if its a bloated x-e3 that's quite an achievement for a 50mp MF camera

 

 

though i recently saw a  gorgeous handmade 6x7 film camera smaller than a canon 5d

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Hallo,

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[LD_50]

yep..if its a bloated x-e3 that's quite an achievement for a 50mp MF camera

 

 

though i recently saw a gorgeous handmade 6x7 film camera smaller than a canon 5d

Isn’t that essentially what the Hasselblad X1D is? It’s basically a rangefinder style camera with a grip. The EVF is not exactly on the left side but it’s close.