AlanJW Posted June 11, 2016 Share #21 Posted June 11, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am happy for all of the users who like the absence of a screen and a good review by the OP from his standpoint. I don't think I would do it. I don't feel I'm good enough. I need the screen in tough exposure situations and also to check framing and sometimes focus point too. This is one of the great advantages of digital for me. When I am traveling to a place to which I might not return, I do not want to get back to my hotel and look at images and say "uh oh, I didn't get what I wanted." This is IMHO especially important with a manual focus rangefinder camera. My proof of all this is from the "experiment" of comparing the images I made when I used film (starting in 1959) compared to to those that are digital (starting maybe 10 years ago). More keepers with the digital and it isn't just that I am older and wiser. My hat is off to those of you who can work without that little screen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 11, 2016 Posted June 11, 2016 Hi AlanJW, Take a look here A few comments based upon two outings with the Leica M-D type 262 camera. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Eastgreenlander Posted June 11, 2016 Share #22 Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) I do not want to get back to my hotel and look at images and say "uh oh, I didn't get what I wanted." This is what I like about Leica, especially the analogue cameras. If the shot is not as it is supposed to be, it is one’s own fault. Correcting and perfecting one owns technique based on your own experience. It is not easy realising its your own fault that the images did not turn out the way it was supposed to. It way easier blaming the camera and its features Edited June 11, 2016 by Eastgreenlander Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 11, 2016 Share #23 Posted June 11, 2016 This is what I like about Leica, especially the analogue cameras. If the shot is not as it is supposed to be, it is one’s own fault. Correcting and perfecting one owns technique based on your own experience. It is not easy realising its your own fault that the images did not turn out the way it was supposed to. It way easier blaming the camera and its features So I have to wait until hours or days later to blame myself? Where did I say I was blaming the camera? I use Leica precisely because there can be no excuses other the failure of the processes that occur between my ears. If I screw up exposure I do not blame the camera. If i screw up focus I do not blame the camera. If I screw up framing I do not blame the camera. That does not mean I have to forgo tools that are available. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 11, 2016 Share #24 Posted June 11, 2016 I still want an M-D, despite even that I found myself in a situation the other day when the M-P's live view on the LCD was the perfect tool for a particular photo. I don't find myself in such situations very often, but even beyond that it's simply unimportant to me that every possible photo I point my camera to capture has to be good. There are an infinity of photo opportunities in the world. I'm content to enjoy the ones I attempt that work out as I envisioned. Handling the SL and then picking up the M-P, I would very much appreciate the additional room for my fingers on the camera that the M-D affords. G 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted June 11, 2016 Share #25 Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) So I have to wait until hours or days later to blame myself? Where did I say I was blaming the camera? I use Leica precisely because there can be no excuses other the failure of the processes that occur between my ears. If I screw up exposure I do not blame the camera. If i screw up focus I do not blame the camera. If I screw up framing I do not blame the camera. That does not mean I have to forgo tools that are available.I wrote about my own experiences. Sorry I did not make this clear... i was suppose to write "one's own fault" not "your own fault". My bad english Sendt fra min SM-G930F med Tapatalk Edited June 11, 2016 by Eastgreenlander Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted June 11, 2016 Share #26 Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) I still want an M-D, despite even that I found myself in a situation the other day when the M-P's live view on the LCD was the perfect tool for a particular photo. I don't find myself in such situations very often, but even beyond that it's simply unimportant to me that every possible photo I point my camera to capture has to be good. There are an infinity of photo opportunities in the world. I'm content to enjoy the ones I attempt that work out as I envisioned. Handling the SL and then picking up the M-P, I would very much appreciate the additional room for my fingers on the camera that the M-D affords. G A digital camera is certainly a benefit to quickly check if you get what you wanted. I need this for landscape images. But for street photography I have found out in my own experience what this can become a nuisance because I then begin to rely on the LCD and then change my style of shooting images, on the fly. I instantly get fustrated when I see that i did not get the image I wanted to, on the LCD and this disrupts my further image shooting instead on concentrating on take the next photo. I've stopped taking images wide open and I now stop down as much as I can in street photography(and family photos). I now concentrate on content instead of bokeh and this has really openned up a new world for me. Shooting analogue Leica MP is, in many ways, a relief. I disconnect my self from the instantaneous age. We want everything instantaneous. With analogue I accept I cannot see what I've shot and I develope and scan months after I taken the image. This really helps me to visualise and concentrate how to take a photograph and the next photo. Its always a pleasant surprise when I see I've nailed a photo I did not remembered taking. Edited June 11, 2016 by Eastgreenlander 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 11, 2016 Share #27 Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Much is made of the skill in framing, exposing and focusing without being able to review the image. I'm not convinced of this at all. Without going back to the film days, for me the most critical thing about photography is timing and composition - the technical stuff really isn't that hard (unless you're using strobe and reflectors and the like). If you're using an M(240) or M9 based camera, after checking your exposures a few times you'll have worked out whether you're focusing or exposing correctly; I would have thought you'd be able to identify scenes which will be under or over exposed by the meter and to adjust accordingly without checking every shot. Similarly, if you're consistently getting focus wrong, you need to either check what you're doing or check your lenses. Most of the time, most images will be gone once you've taken them, and if you find they're wrong there won't be much you can do about it. What I love about the M60 is you set the ISO for the day, you have a good idea what aperture you want and provided you're confident you're focusing properly and getting the exposure you want, you're more part of the scene. You're watching what is going on, and for myself, the camera becomes an extension of me. For those doubting what a camera like this has to offer, set your M(240) or M9 for the day (ISO, white balance etc) and either cover the LCD or put it in a case made for a film M (ie, no opening at the back). I don't think it's enough to turn the LCD off - you really need to be deprived completely of the LCD and menus. Just focus, framing and exposure - you might be surprised what this does to your photography ... Cheers John Edited June 11, 2016 by IkarusJohn 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivette Posted June 12, 2016 Share #28 Posted June 12, 2016 I've never had any problem shooting film with an M2 or M6, and the success rate is no lower than with digital using an EVF. Of course, I'm somewhat slow and methodical. Maybe it's different if you're in an all-fired hurry to get off a barrage of shots, but then you're wasting time if you chimp. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 12, 2016 Share #29 Posted June 12, 2016 A digital camera is certainly a benefit to quickly check if you get what you wanted. I need this for landscape images. But for street photography I have found out in my own experience that this can become a nuisance because I then begin to rely on the LCD and then change my style of shooting images, on the fly. I instantly get fustrated when I see that i did not get the image I wanted to, on the LCD and this disrupts my further image shooting instead on concentrating on take the next photo. I've stopped taking images wide open and I now stop down as much as I can in street photography(and family photos). I now concentrate on content instead of bokeh and this has really openned up a new world for me. Shooting analogue Leica MP is, in many ways, a relief. I disconnect my self from the instantaneous age. We want everything instantaneous. With analogue I accept I cannot see what I've shot and I develope and scan months after I taken the image. This really helps me to visualise and concentrate how to take a photograph and the next photo. Its always a pleasant surprise when I see I've nailed a photo I did not remembered taking. (bolded) Isn't this, indeed, the whole reason why the M-D has an audience? Seems to me that you're presenting a perfect case FOR the M-D as it provides the experience the same as your film MP does. Digital capture has many benefits. The ability to check immediately what you've captured is just one of them, and not the most important. It is others (sensitivity, dynamic range, responsiveness, cost, etc) that are why I prefer a digital M rather than continuing with a film M as my main line of endeavor. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted June 12, 2016 Share #30 Posted June 12, 2016 I have preview switched off on my M 240, I set my profile before I leave home, I change ISO once, in the evening, I don't press Play - would an M-D make any difference to me? I'm a LCD-less sceptic; being unable to resist pressing Play is not a concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 12, 2016 Share #31 Posted June 12, 2016 I have preview switched off on my M 240, I set my profile before I leave home, I change ISO once, in the evening, I don't press Play - would an M-D make any difference to me? I'm a LCD-less sceptic; being unable to resist pressing Play is not a concept. So, what are the settings you make? For your style of photography, sounds like the M-D would not change your technique at all. More critically, I'm not sure anyone is trying to persuade you to buy this camera. Unless I missed something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted June 12, 2016 Share #32 Posted June 12, 2016 The only feeling which I have looking and M-D is white colored envy for them, who can use the camera without checking the results on the screen. It's challenge for me, the second name of M-D is Challenger. I hope one day my skills will allow me to buy this marvelous camera. Not now, not now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 12, 2016 Share #33 Posted June 12, 2016 This is what I like about Leica, especially the analogue cameras. If the shot is not as it is supposed to be, it is one’s own fault. Correcting and perfecting one owns technique based on your own experience. It is not easy realising its your own fault that the images did not turn out the way it was supposed to. It way easier blaming the camera and its features If you don't get the results you want with ANY camera then you only have yourself to blame. It's not some special feature of a Leica. Understand what you're doing and the equipment you're using! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted June 12, 2016 Share #34 Posted June 12, 2016 If you don't get the results you want with ANY camera then you only have yourself to blame. It's not some special feature of a Leica. Understand what you're doing and the equipment you're using! I don't disagree with you. In my own photographic work flow I find my self relying on the LCD when I shot street. And I find the Leica M series the best cameras for this. Especially the analogue series is great for this and now the M-D. I'm not very good at staying committed to shooting when the camera offers "short cuts" to view the image I've just taken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted June 12, 2016 Share #35 Posted June 12, 2016 So, what are the settings you make? For your style of photography, sounds like the M-D would not change your technique at all. More critically, I'm not sure anyone is trying to persuade you to buy this camera. Unless I missed something. Correct, no one is trying to persuade me about anything. I'm trying to get to grips with the appeal of this camera. To decide now that for as long as I use an M I will not want to look at a photograph or histogram or horizon or spot meter or record a movie is outside my world view. I know what I think now, I have no idea what I will think in ten minutes (though it will probably be the same). The fact that you and others can make this choice, buy the camera and live with it is a mystery which if I could understand it would help explain other mysterious behaviours (including some of my own). The settings I make are DNG only, no preview, classic centre weighted meter, 2 second selfie timer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 12, 2016 Share #36 Posted June 12, 2016 Correct, no one is trying to persuade me about anything. I'm trying to get to grips with the appeal of this camera. To decide now that for as long as I use an M I will not want to look at a photograph or histogram or horizon or spot meter or record a movie is outside my world view. I know what I think now, I have no idea what I will think in ten minutes (though it will probably be the same). The fact that you and others can make this choice, buy the camera and live with it is a mystery which if I could understand it would help explain other mysterious behaviours (including some of my own). The settings I make are DNG only, no preview, classic centre weighted meter, 2 second selfie timer. The self-timer/cable release was the only thing which bothered me about the M Edition 60, after I'd worked through all the menu options and realised that with DNG only output, I didn't need any of it. I don't really agree that the M-D is all about not chimping. There's more to it than that, but when it comes down to it, not being able to check the histogram etc is really the biggest difference in practice. I do find myself checking photos after the event (long after, rather than after each shot) with my Monochrom and SL, but that is curiosity more than anything (like Peter H, wanting to see what I've taken). When walking about with a camera, I want the camera to be ready set how I want it, and to be able to raise the camera, take the picture and move on, thinking about the next shot - the M60 works very well for me in this way. Not having a self timer or cable release (the M-D does have a threaded shutter release) means I don't use a tripod with this camera - to be honest, that's no loss as the SL is a better choice in this respect. Cheers John 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted June 13, 2016 Share #37 Posted June 13, 2016 FW Update 1.0.0.4 is now available for the M-D. Once installed, the M-D will now power off if not used for 10 minutes. Hoorah! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 13, 2016 Share #38 Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) FW Update 1.0.0.4 is now available for the M-D. Once installed, the M-D will now power off if not used for 10 minutes. Hoorah! But can this be disabled for when I don't want the camera to shut down? There are situations where it might be more than 10 minutes between shots and I want the camera TO BE READY, without constantly flipping the switch back and forth. Edited June 13, 2016 by ramarren Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted June 13, 2016 Share #39 Posted June 13, 2016 But can this be disabled for when I don't want the camera to shut down? There are situations where it might be more than 10 minutes between shots and I want the camera TO BE READY, without constantly flipping the switch back and forth. You would need a menu and LCD for that. That's what the M-P and M240 are for. The M-D is for simplicity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted June 13, 2016 Share #40 Posted June 13, 2016 But can this be disabled for when I don't want the camera to shut down? There are situations where it might be more than 10 minutes between shots and I want the camera TO BE READY, without constantly flipping the switch back and forth. No, but the camera wakes instantly when the shutter button is half-pressed. There is no need for flipping switches back and forth. For me, the issue is solved. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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