A landscape photographer Leica SL review

[Vieri]

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While I love Leica M cameras and have been shooting with them for years, I never used one for my landscape work - they simply aren't designed for that. Normally not a brand associated with Landscape Photography, when the Leica SL came out this time Leica's offer looked very interesting for my work and I decided to give it a try. Read to see how I liked it:

 

https://vieribottazzini.com/2016/06/landscape-photographer-in-depth-leica-sl-review.html

 

Thank you for your interest, best

 

Vieri

[dkCambridgeshire]

 

While I love Leica M cameras and have been shooting with them for years, I never used one for my landscape work - they simply aren't designed for that. Normally not a brand associated with Landscape Photography, when the Leica SL came out this time Leica's offer looked very interesting for my work and I decided to give it a try. Read to see how I liked it:

 

https://vieribottazzini.com/2016/06/landscape-photographer-in-depth-leica-sl-review.html

 

Thank you for your interest, best

 

Vieri

 

 

 

 

Excellent review Vieri - thank you.

 

dunk

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[wildlightphoto]

Although I have decided the SL is not quite right for my needs I agree with the conclusions in this review.  Thanks for posting, Vieri.

[Jeff S]

I'm also considering the SL for landscape (and some other) work.  This is a good overview, but I'm quite surprised that (unless I missed it) there was no mention of the Leica S system, which after all is the competitor to the 645Z, is used by many for landscape work, produces gorgeous big prints, and is the basis for the SL interface and build quality/weather sealing (the S adopted the 4 button approach from Phase).  

 

And currently discounted S006 models can be purchased for the same or less than the Pentax. For tripod work, the slower speed of the 006 vs the 007 should be a non-issue.  Plus the optical VF in the S system is big and beautiful and the S lenses are stellar (and there are full functioning adapters for third party lenses, e.g, Hasselblad, etc).

 

Jeff

Edited June 4, 2016 by Jeff S

[jrp]

I agree with you, Vieri, weight and colour processing are more important than you would sometimes think, looking across the Internet.  

 

Having lived and liked a 12Mpx Nikon camera (D3s) and even the 24Mpx D3x, at lower ISO, when 24Mpx was novel, and having access to  42Mpx Sony, the resolution is only important for your use case, ie very large prints (and even there, I have sold 2x3m billboard as from a 12Mpx sensor without any problem).  Nevertheless, a larger format sensor brings other qualities to the table, beyond resolution, as you are obviously aware. 

 

Tuning the sharpening, and getting hold of a good DCP profile for the camera, will probably make more difference than MPx, I suspect.  The weight of the SL is just about tolerable. The Sony cameras are lighter (particularly when used with their Batis lenses, and the odd v wide angle Voigtlander).  

[ramarren]

Good review. 

 

I've been chatting with Vieri about it on another forum. Two negative things he mentioned are easily overcome: the WLAN pairing issue and the firmware update wiping out the user's setup. (The fix for the first one is to not use the Qcode mechanism to pair the camera and device; the fix for the settings issue is to use User Profiles and export them.)

 

I'm delighted with the SL. It is without a doubt, for me, the very best digital camera I've owned. I hardly use any of my other digital cameras anymore ... only the M-P, and that pretty occasionally. 

[Stuart Richardson]

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I agree with Jeff S...it seems like the S006 would have been a natural fit! The long exposures are fantastic up to about 90 seconds (does not go much further), and of course it has higher resolution, more lenses with incredibly high quality etc. I see the appeal of the SL, but for the work you describe, the S is hard to beat. That said, I imagine that the price of the lenses and the bulk of the system might have held you back...other than those two factors, it is amazing for what you describe. 

 

I am interested in the SL myself, but it would be more as a videocentric and compact compliment to my S. I am waiting to see what the next M (or S!) might be first, however...first rule of Leica Club: Don't buy anything before a Photokina.  

[Jeff S]

I wasn't making the case of a necessarily better fit for the S.....only that it seemed a major omission from the review considering the author's criteria and given all its attributes, not the least of which is that it's a Leica suitable for landscape, long before the SL arrived (and the basis for the SL interface, lens design and build quality), and medium format to boot.....and now at huge discount for 006.   It would have fit perfectly in the discussion.

 

The SL, however, with its two zooms, and likely with a wide zoom to come, is another great option, with its own additional attributes.

 

I tried the 006 for a week, with the S30-90 zoom but, unlike the writer, I also wanted handheld use, and I found it a bit slow (in ISO and zoom lens speed, especially at the long end) for all but decent daylight.  The S zoom, unlike the SL versions, lacks IS.  On a tripod, though, it was terrific.  I'm now considering the SL instead.  Early shooting tests were very positive.  

 

Tradeoffs.

 

Jeff

Edited June 5, 2016 by Jeff S

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Great review and wonderful accompanying photographs.

 

I've gone somewhat the other way. I've had the SL since launch day and recently added a Pentax 645Z to my kit. Everything about weight is true but the SL is out done by the A7R2 and easily by the 645Z sensor. I don't know how I'll feel about carrying 4kg to get 22-70mm but the detail is stunning and the dynamic range is something else compared to the smaller sensors. Add the fact that dark frame noise reduction is essentially unnecessary until the four minute mark. I did tests between the 645Z, the SL/native lenses and Sony A7R2 using Zeiss manual focus lenses. The 645Z led in every way, including with some of the older FA lenses. But it's a big system. The Sony with Zeiss primes quickly gets close in weight. I do print big. I have a 24" printer so unfortunately resolution matters and I really don't like not being able to turn off dark frame exposures. The SL with both zooms and the WTE is about 4kg. That's ideal for me. I just meed some more megapickles.

 

If Leica made an SL in the 36-45MP range, I probably would have purchased that instead of the Pentax, despite my dislike for the mandatory dark frame subtraction. The lenses are so good and now I can use my Canon T/S lenses another reason for having a Sony body is gone. My ideal kit would be two SL bodies with different resolution sensors. Sony does it and it's worked well for them. It allows variety while keeping production costs lower. With the quality of the zooms an SL with 45MP and a flippy screen would be a truly sensational landscape and travel camera.

 

I am still hugely tempted by the S. With the 645Z I need to stop down to f8 to get the corners to be great, with the FA lenses. At f8 they do resolve as well as the A&R and the best of the Zeiss primes just with a more robust file. But the S lenses are best in class. It's a hugely expensive platform though. My entire 645Z system with 6 lenses costs less than a type 006 and 30-90. I'd end up with probably 3 times the system cost and less range of focal lengths. And really, once you've had live view for critical manual focusing, which is more important as the sensor gets bigger, it's really hard to give it up. That means a type 007, which is astronomically priced. I do love the size/performance ratio though and the with the 30-90 and a wide prime it weighs more or less the same as the Pentax in a smaller package.

 

I'm doing a Leica Acadamie workshop this month, for a bit of fun. It's a landscape trip. Bizarrely, I'm thinking that I'll probably show up without a single Leica camera. The Leica rep won't be happy.  There's not a lot of long distance walking and I'm happy to carry 10kg (645Z kit/bag/tripod/filters) for a few kms. I really want to take my SL and some rather spectacular primes and the two zooms. I just can't get past the dark frame thing and the lower resolution. If I didn't have either the Sony or the 645Z I know I'd be happy with the SL. But I do.....

 

Gordon

[Jeff S]

 My entire 645Z system with 6 lenses costs less than a type 006 and 30-90.

 

Maybe not anymore.  One can find, with some research and negotiation, the 006 and 30-90 zoom together, both with new warranties (3 yr on camera), for near $16k.  Pre-owned versions, some still with very good warranty, for much less, e.g., near $5k for camera only.  A set of S primes, however, can be quite costly, but here too some careful shopping can turn up some nice deals.

 

The 007 is another matter....for now. 

 

Jeff

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Maybe not anymore.  One can find, with some research and negotiation, the 006 and 30-90 zoom together, both with new warranties (3 yr on camera), for near $16k.  Pre-owned versions, some still with very good warranty, for much less, e.g., near $5k for camera only.  A set of S primes, however, can be quite costly, but here too some careful shopping can turn up some nice deals.

 

The 007 is another matter....for now. 

 

Jeff

 

Not in Oz, currently. Really would love to be in Europe for these deals right now. I'd import but once shipping and taxes are added I would spend another 5-10% for local warranties. A few second hand bodies have appeared. However.....

 

16K US is about 22K AUD (plus 10% tax on new equipment) My total investment in the 645Z is less than AUD22K. I have the body, 55mm, 28-45mm (all new AUS warranty) and 75mm, 120mm macro, 150mm, 200mm, 45-85 (2 copies) and 80-160 (two copies) used from Japan. I got two of the zooms because of reports of sample variation (all the ones I got were good though). FA lenses from Japan are really cheap and arrive in 4 working days to Oz. Everything I have out resolves as well or better than the best lenses I have for the A7R2 (which has almost the same horizontal resolution as the 645Z) in the same class (primes vs primes and zooms vs zooms). I have no doubts that the S lenses are the best available but the Zeiss 100MP and 645Z 120mm aren't going to be weaker at f8 than the 120mm S macro.

 

In an S system. I'd be looking at a body (006 although I "want" live view) plus 24mm, 30-90, 120mm and 180mm (and I'd be short a macro). Even if I could get the body and 30-90 for 22K AUD I'd need another 24-28K for the other three lenses here. Advantage would be for AUD1200 I'll be able to use the S to SL adaptor for those lenses. Bad news is I'd actually want the 100mm f2 as well (another 8K) if I did that.

 

This is what'll happen (cause I know how I am....). I'll almost certainly get the 100mm f2 S lens w' the S to SL adaptor. 80-100mm is a range I love, so it'll be nice to have AF. (I currently use a Zeiss 100 f2.0 Makro Planar). Then I'll talk myself into the 180mm. Now I'll have two S lenses and I'll see a camera come up for sale and I won't be able to resist. Since I have the camera it'll be silly not to get the 30-90 and 24mm, TaDa!! S system.

 

That's the day Leica will announce the 50MP SL body.........

 

 

Gordon

[Jeff S]

Yep, that'll probably be how it goes!  If so, keep an eye out for used (or QM2 or certified pre-owned) bodies and lenses.  The prices I quoted were essentially for new gear.....there are some much better deals around for those who are patient and spend time to search.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Leica held back on the MP of the SL so as not to tread too closely on S soil.  The good news, though, is that any new gear might eventually mean some bargains for 007s.

 

One nice (and dangerous) thing about the SL is that it can serve as a complement, as well as a back-up, to a Leica system for those with R, M and/or S lenses (and more)....which is how Leica markets it.....and as you (and I) might succumb.

 

Jeff

Edited June 5, 2016 by Jeff S

[Guest VVJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if Leica held back on the MP of the SL so as not to tread too closely on S soil.  The good news, though, is that any new gear might eventually mean some bargains for 007s.

 

One nice (and dangerous) thing about the SL is that it can serve as a complement, as well as a back-up, to a Leica system for those with R, M and/or S lenses (and more)....which is how Leica markets it.....and as you (and I) might succumb.

 

 

That is actually pretty much the main thing that made me sit on the fence for 6 months with regards to the SL...

 

The fact that Leica would not dare to step on the S and mainly the M...

 

I took the plunge anyway...

[ramarren]

I'm also considering the SL for landscape (and some other) work.  This is a good overview, but I'm quite surprised that (unless I missed it) there was no mention of the Leica S system, which after all is the competitor to the 645Z, is used by many for landscape work, produces gorgeous big prints, and is the basis for the SL interface and build quality/weather sealing (the S adopted the 4 button approach from Phase).  

 

And currently discounted S006 models can be purchased for the same or less than the Pentax. For tripod work, the slower speed of the 006 vs the 007 should be a non-issue.  Plus the optical VF in the S system is big and beautiful and the S lenses are stellar (and there are full functioning adapters for third party lenses, e.g, Hasselblad, etc).

 

Jeff

 

 

The big stopper for a Leica S system, for me anyway, is simply the cost of lenses. It's the main reason why I sat on the sidelines and didn't buy into the R system for all the time between 1968 and 2011: I simply could not afford the lenses to do what I wanted. 

 

Leica abandoning the R system was the best boon for me as people dumped the bodies and lenses for very little relative to their actual value. I had faith that something like the SL would happen so I bought lenses and a couple of R bodies until the SL came along. 

 

I bought one SL lens with the SL. It's probably the only one I'll ever buy unless some huge windfall comes my way. 

[Vieri]

Multi-answer:

 

LEICA S

- Well, the reason for not mentioning it is that this was meant as a SL review, not a comparative review, nor a post on what camera would be better for landscape photography. I mentioned the Pentax 645z just as the camera I was using previous to that and to explain what I am doing and where I come from, equipment-wise. That said, for my predicament, the S had the same "problems" (so to speak!) of the 645z: big, heavy, big and heavy lenses, no Ultra-Wide-Angle options, and long exposures limited to 125 seconds (the last two being the definite show stopper for me). More, the 645z sensor is, in my opinion, much better than the S's. The only advantage I see that the S has over the 645z is in the number of lenses, and in the amazing quality of the S glass - the 645z has one amazing lens, the 28-45mm, one very very good lens (the 90mm), one good lens (the 55mm) and the rest is old glass which is good, but none of which resolves 50 Mp (and I tried pretty much everything under 300mm).

 

HIGH-RESOLUTION SL

- I would love that, as I wrote in my review. I understand Leica's concerns of speed (more Mp = slower camera) and their willing to not jeopardise the S's market, but I think that the best solution would be a 24 Mp, ultra-fast SL (the one we have) and a 40-50 Mp, slower, high-resolution SL (the one I am hoping for). This would be a killer setup, and one that would seriously put Leica back on the professional 135 picture.

 

GODFREY'S NOTES

- Settings: well, my Nikon Dx cameras (D2x, D3) and D800E never seemed to wipe out my settings, however they did it, nor did my Pentax 645z, this is why I was expecting the SL to behave in the same way. I think it's a pretty easy thing to do, programming-wise: just have the FW update program dump the camera settings' state table and read and reinstate them after FW update is done. Of course, this wouldn't work for new functions or settings which options have changed.

- WLAN: About the WLAN issue, I amended the article including the password method to join. This, however, doesn't change at all my gripes: you still have to go through various menu clicks to re-start WIFI every time it shuts down for whatever reason. Adding something like "WLAN - Remote Control by App" to the assignable menu functions would make this a one-click operation, much more in line with the ethos of the camera.

Best,

Vieri

[Tmuussoni]

Just wanted to thank OP for a superb review. Very helpful. Finally a review from landscape shooter's perspective. Despite (still) not being able to turn off LENR I am now seriously considering complementing my M 240 with the SL

 

[Jon Warwick]

A great review and lovely photos. Thank you for posting it. I'm not personally convinced, however, that I would see the benefits of an SL for landscapes (given its DNA of being purposely compromised in terms of resolution in order to increase its speed for action shots). Landscapes are obviously one subject matter where higher rez is more useful due to nature's fine detail. I agree with you that many more megapixels would transform it. That's probably something that is oft said by certain members about all Leica's (me included), whether it's an S, M or SL ..... but I acknowledge that many others (sometimes it feels like the majority??) have the opposite view and see c. 24mp as a sweet spot for 35mm FF handheld cameras. And looking at how Leica keeps bashing out 24mp cameras in different formats, I'm disappointingly thinking that maybe a 40mp+ FF Leica may prove elusive for a long time.

[Jeff S]

The big stopper for a Leica S system, for me anyway, is simply the cost of lenses. It's the main reason why I sat on the sidelines and didn't buy into the R system for all the time between 1968 and 2011: I simply could not afford the lenses to do what I wanted. 

 

Leica abandoning the R system was the best boon for me as people dumped the bodies and lenses for very little relative to their actual value. I had faith that something like the SL would happen so I bought lenses and a couple of R bodies until the SL came along. 

 

I bought one SL lens with the SL. It's probably the only one I'll ever buy unless some huge windfall comes my way. 

 

Well if buying native lenses isn't required, one can buy much less costly lenses for the S as well...Contax, Hasselblad, etc,, and use each with fully functional adapters made by Leica.  Many posting on the S forum do just that.  But I get your point.

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

The only advantage I see that the S has over the 645z is in the number of lenses, and in the amazing quality of the S glass - the 645z has one amazing lens, the 28-45mm, one very very good lens (the 90mm), one good lens (the 55mm) and the rest is old glass which is good, but none of which resolves 50 Mp (and I tried pretty much everything under 300mm).

 

 

 

Based on your review, I'm guessing you'd be pretty fond of the 4 button interface as well.  It didn't appear on the SL first.....context for the SL underpinnings.

 

I owned a Pentax 645 film camera.....and I can say that, for me, the form factor and handling of the S also wins hands down (even though I didn't keep the S).

 

No matter.   Glad the SL works for you....it might for me as well.

 

Jeff

Edited June 5, 2016 by Jeff S

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[ramarren]

...

- Settings: well, my Nikon Dx cameras (D2x, D3) and D800E never seemed to wipe out my settings, however they did it, nor did my Pentax 645z, this is why I was expecting the SL to behave in the same way. I think it's a pretty easy thing to do, programming-wise: just have the FW update program dump the camera settings' state table and read and reinstate them after FW update is done. Of course, this wouldn't work for new functions or settings which options have changed.

...

 

 

How particular updates behave depends on the update as well as the brand and camera. For instance, all of the major updates from Olympus (2.0, 3.0, 4.0) have wiped all the settings, the intermediary ones (2.2, 3.1, 4.1) didn't. The Sony updates I did on the A7 wiped the camera, the Leica M9 ones did too, the Panasonic ones did, the Nikon didn't, etc. 

 

I agree it would be nice to have it completely automated, but I also don't see it as a huge deal. An update happens once or twice a year ... Surely it's not all that big a burden to save a profile, export profiles, and import them afterwards? 

 

Perhaps the more fundamental issue is that I really don't expect or desire so much automation. I like to know exactly what the state of my settings and camera are, and be in control of it myself.