Timezone bug with DST in Suunto movescount

[bencoyote]

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I'm kind of posting this for informational purposes to help other people avoid having to spend an hour or so to track down the problem. It isn't exactly Leica specific.

 

I've been more consistent about Geocoding my photos.  I use my GPS watch a Suunto Ambit to gather the position data.

Anyway, I've found that I have to set timezone offsets to get the photos to line up correctly. I thought that the problem was likely in the Leica cameras but after looking closely at the EXIF data I found that Leica did things correctly. For example:

 

MacBook-Pro:G+ ben$ exiftool ~/Pictures/Pictures/2016/2016-05-08/L1011671.DNG | grep Date
File Modification Date/Time     : 2016:05:09 08:31:22-07:00
File Access Date/Time           : 2016:05:09 09:16:56-07:00
File Inode Change Date/Time     : 2016:05:09 08:31:22-07:00
Modify Date                     : 2016:05:08 17:34:51
Metadata Date                   : 2016:05:09 08:31:22-07:00
Date Created                    : 2016:05:08 17:34:51
Date/Time Original              : 2016:05:08 17:34:51
Create Date                     : 2016:05:08 17:34:51

 

However looking at the GPX file that I get from Suunto Movescount:

 

<time>2016-05-09T00:07:05.000Z</time>

This converts to 17:07 PDT However, I actually began gathering the data a 16:07 PDT

Interestingly their web site properly displays the correct local time: http://www.movescount.com/moves/move104604192

 

Anyway, lest anyone GeoTag their photos incorrectly, the workaround until Suunto fixes it is to use Lightroom's timezone offset and plug in a -1hr offset when in Daylight Savings Time. Then everything lines up properly.

[jmahto]

I don't rely on the exact time of my GPS tracks which are created via dedicated hiking or smartphone apps. Most of them add correct timestamps but they may have offset due to DST as you mentioned above.

 

What I care about is the timestamp sync between different cameras I am carrying (mine and other's in my team - if I am geotagging all). This I achieve by taking a synchronization shot at known location and fixing the time offset in LR for all cameras. After that I simply load the gps track in LR and drag a specific picture to a known location on the track. This method works better than relying on actual timestamp synchronization between GPS device and camera (difficult due to timestamp drift in camera(s)).

[pop]

This I achieve by taking a synchronization shot at known location and fixing the time offset in LR for all cameras. 

Wouldn't you just as soon take a shot of the display of your GPS device showing the time of day?

[bencoyote]

Yeah I periodically double check my camera's date and time. The Leica cameras seem to not have benefited from their designer living relatively close to Switzerland. I've had 3 Leicas and all drift more than my much cheaper Japanese cameras.

 

The T seems to be the most accurate and seems to drift fairly little but still a noticeable amount. 

My old M drifted a little as well in the neighborhood of the T.

My new M-P before the latest update seemed to need to be updated basically weekly. It used to be slow but I just looked and it is was a minute fast.

 

It is more of a T feature than a M240 feature but I think that cameras with GPSs like the T has in its EVF should automatically set their own time and timezone.

 

Furthermore, I think that cameras with WiFi should use NTP set their own time any time they connect to a WiFi network. This is a behind the scenes thing and doesn't have to take away from Das Wesenlisch. When was the last time you set the clock on your phone? 

 

(I do sort of hope that on the next M, Leica figures out some way to mount a GPS and a WiFi antenna somewhere in the top plate the way that they did with the SL. Or maybe they take the T's EVF and make a smaller non-EVF GPS only hot shoe accessory.)

[bencoyote]

Wouldn't you just as soon take a shot of the display of your GPS device showing the time of day?

Clever!

[jmahto]

Wouldn't you just as soon take a shot of the display of your GPS device showing the time of day?

GPS tracking device (phone or dedicated) is usually buried in my backpack.

 

Edit: I could do the same at home by noticing the offset between my camera time and GPS time. However, my drag and drop of pictures on the track in LR is much easier. If you are using some other means (outside LR) of stamping pictures with geo coordinates then the time synchronization may be needed.

[jmahto]

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Yeah I periodically double check my camera's date and time. The Leica cameras seem to not have benefited from their designer living relatively close to Switzerland. I've had 3 Leicas and all drift more than my much cheaper Japanese cameras.

 

The T seems to be the most accurate and seems to drift fairly little but still a noticeable amount. 

My old M drifted a little as well in the neighborhood of the T.

My new M-P before the latest update seemed to need to be updated basically weekly. It used to be slow but I just looked and it is was a minute fast.

 

It is more of a T feature than a M240 feature but I think that cameras with GPSs like the T has in its EVF should automatically set their own time and timezone.

 

Furthermore, I think that cameras with WiFi should use NTP set their own time any time they connect to a WiFi network. This is a behind the scenes thing and doesn't have to take away from Das Wesenlisch. When was the last time you set the clock on your phone? 

 

(I do sort of hope that on the next M, Leica figures out some way to mount a GPS and a WiFi antenna somewhere in the top plate the way that they did with the SL. Or maybe they take the T's EVF and make a smaller non-EVF GPS only hot shoe accessory.)

 

I am not so sure about camera syncing time with WiFi... I certainly don't want it if it means shortened battery life.

 

I am really not convinced about camera having GPS. From design perspective, GPS track is independent of it's usage. Stamping pictures with Geo coordinates is only one such usage. Therefore I will prefer a GPS device to be outside camera (and other consuming devices/apps). Right now I can geo stamp pictures of all digital cameras in my party (as long as we are hiking together) using only one outside GPS device with the primary benefit of navigation usage in back country.

 

But then, if you give me accurate GPS (not with 15min delay) without shortened battery life and no extra bulk in a camera then I will take it... I am greedy.

[bencoyote]

I am not so sure about camera syncing time with WiFi... I certainly don't want it if it means shortened battery life.

 

I am really not convinced about camera having GPS. From design perspective, GPS track is independent of it's usage. Stamping pictures with Geo coordinates is only one such usage. Therefore I will prefer a GPS device to be outside camera (and other consuming devices/apps). Right now I can geo stamp pictures of all digital cameras in my party (as long as we are hiking together) using only one outside GPS device with the primary benefit of navigation usage in back country.

 

But then, if you give me accurate GPS (not with 15min delay) without shortened battery life and no extra bulk in a camera then I will take it... I am greedy.

 

NTP would exchange about 12-15 packets with the internet and be done once when you turn on the camera with WiFi enabled or enable WiFi.  You wouldn't even be able to notice it.

 

Most of your concerns really are related to previous generations of GPSs Now they take astronomically minuscule amounts of power and acquire their location amazingly quickly. Just to put things into perspective, my watch which is big but not excessively so usually finds itself in about 10 seconds and runs continuously for 12 hours off of the battery that they manage to squeeze into a waterproof watch case. If they just upgrade the processor in the M to the latest generation semiconductor process when they refresh the M, they will save enough power to run the GPS and then some without impacting battery life. Most of the camera's power consumption is due to charging up a giant 36x24mm sensor, lighting up the display, and writing the data to the Flash in your SD card. The rest is almost lost in the background.

[jmahto]

For sure new devices are improving on power consumption issue and abilibity to lock faster. This is why I would rather use the best technology available for a given purpose. For example, in city I would rather use smartphone based GPS tracking which works even indoors (by usng cell signal to compensate for weak Satellite signal).

[jaapv]

I use GPS4Cam which adjusts such things automatically as it syncs on import to your computer. (provided you do not fiddle with the timestamp of the camera during the trip). Recommended App.

[pop]

I use GPS4Cam 

So do I, when the GPS and the battery in my phone happen to be working.

[jmahto]

I also use GPS4Cam (from Jaap's recommendation some time ago) and love it. In low power mode it can run all day with barely any battery usage (maybe 10% on iPhone).