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crop or full frame-Nikon vs Leica


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The nikon boys have been asking for a replacement D300 crop DSLR or a decade  now.    It finally arrived as D500 along with D5 full frame.

 

Leica seems quick to ditch the M8 for full frame.  

 

Nikon wildlife and sports guys like the crop.  But so do some wedding guys.  

 

Since I finally figured how to fix the high iso noise,  I appreciate the M8.  Just wide lenses remain an issue,  but I am not a wide angle photog.

 

So why do the Nikon people like crop and Leica people do not?

 

 

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How do you fix the high ISO noise, Tobey?

If you explained it before, a link would do.

Many thanks.

 

Under expose up to 4 stops and push exposure in post.  You will need to work out noise reduction on a real properly exposed base iso exposure.  Work on a 200 or 300% original.  I use a 50 setting luminosity in ACR or LR.  50 retain detail  Then apply that to to the under exposed image before you push .  

 

This has been written about before, just not by me.   But they claim the computer does a better push than the camera does, which I do not find to be true.  Remember any setting above base 160 is an in camera push or amplification.  If you start with a clean noise free signal,  you do not get a noisy push file..

 

The down side is the preview is too dark.  2500 from 160 does get a little gritty,  but not something hard to fix.

 

I am working on doing individual RGB colors for NR as some have more noise than others.

 

This seems to work with Nikons also, D750, D800, 

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"Downside: the preview's too dark."

 

In full sunlight one can pretend to have a brand-new MD and save a couple of bucks.

;) knowing that hardly any potential M-D buyers take the wrong exit and arrive here in the M8 sub-forum.

 

Have a good week-end, Tobey :) !

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The nikon boys have been asking for a replacement D300 crop DSLR or a decade  now.    It finally arrived as D500 along with D5 full frame.

 

Leica seems quick to ditch the M8 for full frame.  

 

Nikon wildlife and sports guys like the crop.  But so do some wedding guys.  

 

Since I finally figured how to fix the high iso noise,  I appreciate the M8.  Just wide lenses remain an issue,  but I am not a wide angle photog.

 

So why do the Nikon people like crop and Leica people do not?

 

Crop cameras need lenses with a smaller image circle hence smaller, lighter lenses can be made for usually big and heavy SLR lenses.

Crop cameras do provide more reach for people who shoot predominantly long lenses as they crop the image as of their physically smaller sensors, yet still come at relatively high resolutions.

Crop cameras are sold in much larger numbers than full frame cameras and sensor designs are even shared among different camera manufacturers and camera models, driving manufacturing cost of these sensors down, making cameras - and lenses for these cameras more affordable.

 

A high end crop DSLR body can be interesting as a specialized body for longer lenses.

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Another reason might be, that many Nikon APS-DSLR shooters have not been active photographers before but rather started when digital became affordable (D100). So they are not used to the focal length number of film (aka "fullframe") lenses. 

Leica photographers mostly have taken photos with film Leicas before and prefer to use the same numbers when they think about focal lenght.

 

But then, I don't think that this is brand specific. It rather has to do with DSLRs, since Canon DSLR users are similar.

And many of those who have already shot with Nikon and Canon film SLRs also want "fullframe" digital cams today.

Edited by LucisPictor
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once, leica started to produce "DX"-Style of lenses that illuminate just the APS-H-Sensor and would cost like 60% of what an enttrylevel lens of the same angle would cost -so maybe a 26mm  1:2,4 summacrop for 800 eur instead of a 35mm 1:2,4 summarit for 1500 eur- there might have been wide request for a replacement of the M8. but as Leica decided to remain with the full frame -wich otherwise especially in the early years of 20th cetury was referred to as "the leica format"- of 24x36mm in construction of all their lenses for the M-Mount there was nobody who needed a cropsensorcam with a rangefinder.

 

I like my M8 for its very special Sensor and the capability of B/W with very much definition in the shadows . I would love to buy a fullframecam with the exact sensor (and maybe some quicker postprocessing and storing) in 24x36. but i am definitely not interested in another cropcam with a "modern" sensor without the special features of the M8.

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Leica folks often care about the edge rendering of their lenses....that's lost with the crop.  That's why many M8 users rejoiced when the lenses they already owned (designed for 'full frame' 35mm film Ms) could be used again to their full potential on the M9.

 

I personally loved using the 'sweet spot' of those lenses on the M8.2. 

 

Jeff

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I'd love a revamped M8...

With live view so I can use some macro lenses.  My lenses go from 20mm equivalence to 180mm equivalence...that's fine (for me)

 

The crop is of no concern, I love the sweet spot and my photography doesn't need "full frame".  I print large and I am happy with them.

After all it is always about the moment, doesn't matter what lens or camera you are using.

 

I'm happy to have the filters, tuning the light for a particular sensor...makes sense.

 

With the modern trend it would have to be a CMOS sensor.  Which means better ISO which I'd like. Video which I'd use occasionally...and that's about it for CMOS.  The CCD is OK too...just love to have live view as I like to do macro...and chimp like crazy, with a better screen... :lol:

 

But, I'm a realist, and know the chances are....zero.

 

PS black paint with Leica script

Edited by david strachan
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I'd love a revamped M8...

With live view so I can use some macro lenses.  My lenses go from 20mm equivalence to 180mm equivalence...that's fine (for me)

 

The crop is of no concern, I love the sweet spot and my photography doesn't need "full frame".  I print large and I am happy with them.

After all it is always about the moment, doesn't matter what lens or camera you are using.

 

I'm happy to have the filters, tuning the light for a particular sensor...makes sense.

 

With the modern trend it would have to be a CMOS sensor.  Which means better ISO which I'd like. Video which I'd use occasionally...and that's about it for CMOS.  The CCD is OK too...just love to have live view as I like to do macro...and chimp like crazy, with a better screen... :lol:

 

But, I'm a realist, and know the chances are....zero.

 

PS black paint with Leica script

Apart from the crop, you've pretty much described the M-P Dave!

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I'd love a revamped M8...

With live view so I can use some macro lenses.  My lenses go from 20mm equivalence to 180mm equivalence...that's fine (for me)

 

The crop is of no concern, I love the sweet spot and my photography doesn't need "full frame".  I print large and I am happy with them.

After all it is always about the moment, doesn't matter what lens or camera you are using.

 

I'm happy to have the filters, tuning the light for a particular sensor...makes sense.

 

With the modern trend it would have to be a CMOS sensor.  Which means better ISO which I'd like. Video which I'd use occasionally...and that's about it for CMOS.  The CCD is OK too...just love to have live view as I like to do macro...and chimp like crazy, with a better screen... :lol:

 

But, I'm a realist, and know the chances are....zero.

 

PS black paint with Leica script

 

if you could cope with a camera without the rangefinder or OVF (wich i coudn't) you should try out a Fuji X-E1. they go for almost nothing in the bay and do all this with almost any manual lense and adapter you'd like.

 

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I'm enjoying the crop factor on my M8. I have a pretty unorthodox way of shooting since I moved from my Nikon D4s but it works for me: a Leica Q for the 28mm wide angle + up to 60mm (which is cropped of course, resulting in file sizes similar to the M8) and then my M8 with a 90mm attached to it with makes for a really nice zoom. Since I mainly do concerts and portraits, these focal lengths work perfect and I have absolutely no complaints with the M8 crop, I think it can really be used as an advantage.

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... I like my M8 for its very special Sensor and the capability of B/W with very much definition in the shadows . I would love to buy a fullframecam with the exact sensor (and maybe some quicker postprocessing and storing) in 24x36. but i am definitely not interested in another cropcam with a "modern" sensor without the special features of the M8.

At the risk of stating the obvious: you can - the M9.  The M8 has the Kodak KAF10500 CCD sensor and the M9 has the Kodak KAF18500 CCD sensor, which is identical but larger with the same offset microlenses at the edges.  The main difference I believe is that the M9's KAF18500 has a thicker IR filter glass layer than the KAF10500 following the wailing and gnashing of teeth when black fabrics were found to turn magenta etc owing to unfiltered rays in the infrared spectrum.

 

Pete.

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The sensor stack thickness of the M8 is 0.5mm vs 0.8mm for the M9 IINW. Not sure if it comes from that but the M8 has always given me the feeling to have more acutance than both M9 and M240 bodies. The M8 has more moiré issues though. 

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