ebay - a cautionary tale

[Shootist]

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Sorry to hear this.

 

You said you paid with PayPal. Well did you use a credit card? Or did you have PP take it out of your checking account.

 

I never let PP take money out of my listed checking account for just this reason, I aways pay for items bought on eBay with a credit card through PayPal. That way if I have a problem I go back to my CC company and let them fight it out with PayPal and or the seller.

 

Next question is just how do you register a lens as stolen with Leica?

I've never seen any reference to it on there website.

 

Was this a fairly new lens? IE a NEW model.

[andybarton]

Andy, you can even deduct gambling losses from your income taxes here. ;-)

 

Now I know you are pulling my leg

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[Shootist]

Now I know you are pulling my leg

 

Gambling losses.

 

You can but only up to the amount of what you claim as winnings. So it is a wash. You can not claim pure losses over and above what you claim as winnings.

[popum]

You can deduct gambling losses only to the extent they are exceeded by gambling winnings

 

Mike

[larry]

Now I know you are pulling my leg

 

Actually, I'm not. If you list your profession as a gambler, losses are considered a deductible business expense. (And as Ed and Mike noted, above.)

 

Larry

[wparsonsgisnet]

Not a joke about the gambling losses. As I said, it's heaven over here.

 

Isn't it interesting how many "photographers" understand all this?

[andybarton]

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No wonder your economy is down the pan, if everyone is gambling away the tax revenues and being given tax relief on ridiculous grounds.

 

[andybarton]

Hi Carl

I quite agree - happy for the owner . . . .. except that I bought the lens without a lens hood, paid £64 for one, and that's gone back to the owner too

 

That hood is YOURS and Leica should replace it for you if they have sent it to someone else.

[wparsonsgisnet]

No wonder your economy is down the pan, if everyone is gambling away the tax revenues and being given tax relief on ridiculous grounds.

 

 

Well... it's the administration that's using up all the tax revenues....

 

I've been thinking about the cautionary tale and would really like to be a fly on the wall when the coppers visit the store manager.

[larry]

Not a joke about the gambling losses. As I said, it's heaven over here.

 

Isn't it interesting how many "photographers" understand all this?

 

 

Yes, and I think the word "editor" is really an anagram for "gambler." I'll move around and add a few letters and see if it works on next year's tax return.

[andybarton]

Well... it's the administration that's using up all the tax revenues....

 

I've been thinking about the cautionary tale and would really like to be a fly on the wall when the coppers visit the store manager.

 

"Copper"

 

There's a word you don't hear very often any more

[Shootist]

No wonder your economy is down the pan, if everyone is gambling away the tax revenues and being given tax relief on ridiculous grounds.

 

 

Not really ridiculous grounds. You have to PAY the taxes on your winnings.

So if you start off with 100000 and win 50000, for a total of 150000 you pay the taxes on the 50 thou you won.

If you start off with the same 100k and win 50k one day and lose 125k the next you can only claim a 50k loss, NOT a 75k loss and you're still out 75k from what you started with.

[Photoskeptic]

Jono, you have my deepest sympathy. I quit dealing with eBay over a year ago when someone in the UK hijacked my identity and ran up spurious auctions and charges. It took weeks to straighten out and when I was finally vindicated I left them and PayPal. I just don't need the agro. OTOH, if you paid with PayPal or a credit card, you can certainly have the money refunded. 'tis a shame to be treated as a criminal when you are the innocent party.

If you can receive no satisfaction I would "out" the company in question. Others need to know.

Regards,

John

[andybarton]

Not really ridiculous grounds. You have to PAY the taxes on your winnings.

So if you start off with 100000 and win 50000, for a total of 150000 you pay the taxes on the 50 thou you won.

If you start off with the same 100k and win 50k one day and lose 125k the next you can only claim a 50k loss, NOT a 75k loss and you're still out 75k from what you started with.

 

Our enlightened Chancellor recently abolished taxes on gambling.

 

However, there were never any reliefs on losses, so if you lost 50k, you lost 50k, but if you won 100k, he took 10% of it (or whatever the % was)

 

Good system.

 

[LichMD]

To get back to Jono's post, I think you have a number of options here.

a) you can dispute the charge with your CC company (if you payed through PP with your CC)

PP and Ebay should act on your behalf to get you satisfaction

c) The dealer should establish who the seller was (to the police) and they (dealer and seller) should be liable, so you may get your money back that way

d) The hood is yours and Leica should return/reimburse you.

 

Good luck

[Guest tummydoc]

I've spent time in several different countries in my lifetime so I'm not sure of what applies where, but I'm certain that at least in Canada and the States anyone who "receives" stolen goods is in violation of the law, and that would include the dealer who "received" it first. Selling stolen property is also a crime so the dealer seems liable on two counts. I'm surprised that Leica would automatically send the lens back to the original owner...perhaps that's an European thing. Here in N. America IIRC the property would customarily be forwarded to the police in the jurisdiction where the theft report was filed and kept by them as evidence until the case was through the courts.

[peterv]

Sorry to hear this Jono.

 

I hope this legitimate dealer can work something out, and pay you back in a satisfactory manner.

 

Maybe Guy, or someone else who is close to Leica could send an e-mail to clear your name over there, if needed.

 

They only have to track your several hundred postings to verify you don't deserve to be on any #%&!# list.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[mat_mcdermott]

(I also always pay with PayPal, which is owned by eBay, so if there's any dispute there's at least the promise of insurance to something like $2000 US.

 

I've got a quite different view of Paypal:

 

Currently I'm in the middle of dispute with Paypal because a person who I sold an M6 TTL .58 (sold to finance part of my M8) claimed they never received the camera. I didn't know Paypal didn't accept USPS tracking numbers as proof of delivery and shipped the camera to my buyer (in Hong Kong, and with a 99% positive rating on eBay) via Global Priority. The buyer said it never arrived and Paypal sided with them because of my tracking information was good enough. I took the situation as an unfortunate live and learn experience, until I checked my buyer's website and found they were selling the camera that they claimed never arrived. The serial numbers clearly match on both their photos and mine, as well as several scratches that clearly match in both photos. Paypal refuses to reverse their decision even though I've provided links to the website showing the sale and how the serial numbers are the same. Basically I'm out the selling price, the camera itself and my ability to use Paypal until I refund the money. Beware of using USPS when shipping anything paid for through Paypal; if it goes missing (or is claimed to be missing) they will not accept USPS tracking information as valid.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've been dealing with this all weekend and am entirely infuriated with Paypal and the person who bought this camera on eBay.

[GarethC]

Before we villify the seller too much is it not worth remembering that he, like Jono, took it on face value. I agree, there really should be more due dilgience on behalf of retailers on ebay but look at the volume of sales fo some of these powersellers, htey're just working on volume. As we can see from the post above, neither ebay nor paypal do an adequate job of policing, there is so little equity in much of their supposed arbitration.

 

Let's face it, ebay is just a glorified flea market, there is no regulation either from within or without, items are misrepresented, some are over priced and to confuse things some are even under priced. Just because it's on the www it doesn't have any more security (and I would suggest a lot less) than the local flea market.

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[newyorkone]

I've got a quite different view of Paypal:

 

Currently I'm in the middle of dispute with Paypal because a person who I sold an M6 TTL .58 (sold to finance part of my M8) claimed they never received the camera. I didn't know Paypal didn't accept USPS tracking numbers as proof of delivery and shipped the camera to my buyer (in Hong Kong, and with a 99% positive rating on eBay) via Global Priority. The buyer said it never arrived and Paypal sided with them because of my tracking information was good enough. I took the situation as an unfortunate live and learn experience, until I checked my buyer's website and found they were selling the camera that they claimed never arrived. The serial numbers clearly match on both their photos and mine, as well as several scratches that clearly match in both photos. Paypal refuses to reverse their decision even though I've provided links to the website showing the sale and how the serial numbers are the same. Basically I'm out the selling price, the camera itself and my ability to use Paypal until I refund the money. Beware of using USPS when shipping anything paid for through Paypal; if it goes missing (or is claimed to be missing) they will not accept USPS tracking information as valid.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've been dealing with this all weekend and am entirely infuriated with Paypal and the person who bought this camera on eBay.

 

Sorry Jono and Mat. Ebay and paypal both stink. Mat, same thing happened to a friend of mine. There are pro scammers out there that know the paypal loop holes and exploit them boldly. The bottom line with paypal to keep in mind, the buyer is always right to them and tracking information will not help you in a dispute. As a seller, you are automatically deemed guilty and you have to prove your innocence. ebay and paypal are the same company and both have been a heaven sent marketplace and resource for crooks and underworld dealers.

 

I'm not a fan of ebay, but Mat, some here might benefit from information on this HK ebayer and his "store." He/She should be avoided!