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Nocti vs 50 APO


hockey44

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I thought it was pretty clear I was also referring to the photograph rather than just the background, even if a pedantic reading of my sentence might suggest otherwise.

 

It was just a due correction of your unfair attempt to make me appear like an idiot who says that blurrying the background makes the background more interesting.

But nice try.

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It was just a due correction of your unfair attempt to make me appear like an idiot who says that blurrying the background makes the background more interesting.

But nice try.

I think you manage quite well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by wattsy
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I didn't understand Jennifers post as that. I think she meant it as in, it's not always appropriate and you should have a reason to use it.

 

But in saying that, I don't think there is much more work in either, they are just different. I think you do have to work exceptionally hard to create a valid image at 0.95, because most people have switched off to bokeh-for-the-sake-of-bokeh shots. You need to make sure it's relevant and appropriate to the image and actually saying something other than a hollow and vapid "look at my lens".

 

 

IMO the Noctilux is all about that f/0.95, why else would one either pay the price for it, or suffer the inconvenience of using it? So, given I'm not slavishly wedded to bokeh, being more than satisfied by that offered by the APO at f/2 or the Summilux at f/1.4, the Noctilux only comes out when I believe I can achieve something different and appealing (creative??) at or around f/0.95. Shot stopped right down I can't see the point and I'd rather go out to play with the APO and come home without neck ache.

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Thanks again for this discussion on pros and cons of Nocti.  Just curious if anyone knows if there is a weight difference between black and silver (I seem to find 700g for both-- but that seems odd).  This begs my last question on the topic--- if I do decide to take the plunge and buy the Nocti I would welcome thoughts on black vs silver?  I have the silver lux 50 and I must confess-- I really like the feel.  But I wonder if the bulk of the Nocti in silver will make it harder to be 'discrete'--- or is that a nonsense thought.

Many thanks

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If it's being discrete that you're worrying about, I'd suggest a smaller and quicker (as opposed to faster) lens in the first place, so go for the colour you prefer. I shouldn't worry about the weight either,  for similar reasons; if weight was an significant  issue, you'd be looking elsewhere to begin with.

 

Buy whatever colour makes you happy. Enjoy!

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Thanks again for this discussion on pros and cons of Nocti.  Just curious if anyone knows if there is a weight difference between black and silver (I seem to find 700g for both-- but that seems odd).

Not odd at all. The silver version is not brass, but aluminum.

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In the past I had the 50 Summilux but I sold it to purchase the Noctilux 0,95 that I use with happiness since years.

As many others I found it was not always easy to move round with it and I was suffering of not having a "normal" 50.

Finally I purchased a 50 (non-ASPH) 50 summicron - classical image, small lenses, light and affordable as go around lens.

I think it is the perfect combination, I have never doubts to witch is more adapted for what situation.

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- I use the 0.95 Noct for when I want that kind of bokeh in daylight or lowlight, and in my opinion it is "superior" for available light concert shots in low light and allows for a lower ISO setting. Even my SL produces some noise at ISO 3200 with the 50 Apo Summicron and I prefer to e.g shoot at ISO 1200 or less. I think the Noct shots are more "atmospheric" in the latter setup, too, wide-open. It also does great as a general purpose 50mm when it is mounted anyway for any of the above reasons and I have nothing else in the bag or dangling around my neck. But yes, everybody knows it is heavy.

 

- I like the 50 Apo Summicron a lot when there is ample good light outside for those "blue hour shots". It cuts through light with amazing transparency. Some say it has no fingerprint. I think its fingerprint is its transparency and contrast behavior. There is a nice interview at the Overgaard website with Peter Karbe who explains some of the magic of this lens, technically. In my opinion, it nicely renders at F2 for portraits. With careful setting, light and background it can be amazing. But the Noct allows for less careful setups as you see less potentially disturbing background at F 0.95. The Apo Cron is great to walk around and if subject separation for portraits is not key it is fantastic. I think the 28 Summilux and the SL 28-90 produce a similar look and transparency.

 

- I take the 50 Summilux when I want the "in between", when I am not sure what to expect and want to have a good compromise (focusing on the positive aspects) on the camera which is not too heavy.

 

With the above as an introduction, to your question, if I could only have one of the above, well, for the mix I like to shoot, I would keep the Noct, even though it is heavy. If low light shots would not be of high interest the decision would be between the lux and the apo. If I did many portraits I would probably keep the lux. If I was mainly out on the street or field in blue hour, probably the Apo. - 

 

Disclaimer: all that is just my opinion, I do not generalize and I do not want to sound evangelical, it is just how I interpret and use my gear

Edited by MRJohn
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  • 9 months later...

Hi "MRJohn"!

Many thanks for your sharing and idea on Nocti and M Apo 50. I have SL 601, SL 24-90/f2.8-4.0 and M Apo 50 f2. I intend to trade in M Apo 50 f2 for Nocti 50 f0.95 since I found the M Apo 50 f2 too sharp for portrait. Please advice your idea!

Have a nice day!

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Hi "MRJohn"!

Many thanks for your sharing and idea on Nocti and M Apo 50. I have SL 601, SL 24-90/f2.8-4.0 and M Apo 50 f2. I intend to trade in M Apo 50 f2 for Nocti 50 f0.95 since I found the M Apo 50 f2 too sharp for portrait. Please advice your idea!

Have a nice day!

 

Hi phongph,

 

you are welcome. - But I can not possibly advice you what to do. It seems that you do not like the way the Apo 50cron works for you, so yes, you can try the noct or another alternative. I have to say that if you were to take "business style" portraits, like headshots, the Apo50 crispness could be great. If you are more into "arty" portraits then the noct offers more possibilities. I have the luxury of being able to keep them all and use them sometimes intentionally but at other times serendipitously. The noct feels good on the SL, it is a heavy but solid package and I use the SL more with a handstrap, compared to an M which works for me with a neckstrap. Meaning the SL goes back into a fast bag, vs the M dangles around the neck. If you have an opportunity to rent the noct I would make a comparison at f2 and f4, and see what you like. Obviously you only get f0.95 with the noct, which offers additional possibilities (if you like and need it) but you need to pay an extra few kUSD for it. An alternative for the extra money might be to keep the Apo and get a 75 lux for a different style of portraits.

 

Good luck with your decision.

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Hi phongph,

 

you are welcome. - But I can not possibly advice you what to do. It seems that you do not like the way the Apo 50cron works for you, so yes, you can try the noct or another alternative. I have to say that if you were to take "business style" portraits, like headshots, the Apo50 crispness could be great. If you are more into "arty" portraits then the noct offers more possibilities. I have the luxury of being able to keep them all and use them sometimes intentionally but at other times serendipitously. The noct feels good on the SL, it is a heavy but solid package and I use the SL more with a handstrap, compared to an M which works for me with a neckstrap. Meaning the SL goes back into a fast bag, vs the M dangles around the neck. If you have an opportunity to rent the noct I would make a comparison at f2 and f4, and see what you like. Obviously you only get f0.95 with the noct, which offers additional possibilities (if you like and need it) but you need to pay an extra few kUSD for it. An alternative for the extra money might be to keep the Apo and get a 75 lux for a different style of portraits.

Good luck with your decision.

Hi MRJohn!

Many thanks for your advice! I will borrow my friend the Nocti f0.95 and will also study M Lux 75 f1.4. Then I will go into one of two below option to shoot with SL 601:

- Get Nocti 50 f0.95 (trade in M apo 50),

- Keep M Apo 50 f2 and get M Lux 75 f1.4.

Ps: I think M Apo 50 f2 is one of top IQ lens of Leica.

I think You also have the concern as mine in the past, but You can keep both Nocti and M Apo 50!

Have a good day!

Edited by phongph
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  • 1 year later...

I would welcome thoughts on selling Lux 50 to purchase either Nocti or APO 50.  (I have Lux 35 FLE which I am very happy with).  Don't get me wrong, I like the Lux 50 but smitten with Nocti-lust when I see it....I have M240 body and my 'brain' thinks better in 50 than 35 (I can't explain that).

I LOVE the Nocti and usually carry it with me as an only lens.

 

I also own the regular non-APO Summicron and it is my choice for travel when I want to carry multiple lenses. The APO is obviously much better, but this combination really does absolutely everything I want to do at 50mm.

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I've got both. I use my APO a lot more. 3D rendering is something special on the APO. The Noctilux ended up being a novelty, it's too big and finicky. I do take it out once in a while, mostly in the afternoons or at night. 

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  • 5 months later...
On 4/12/2016 at 9:25 AM, adamdewilde said:

I have all three.. I actually even have two 50APO lenses. Simply because it's my most used lens. So I have one on a M246 (honestly wasted on the M246) at all times and one on a M240-P at all times. The rest of the lenses in my kit get used equally if they're in the range of 35-75 and get used very infrequently if they're 18-28 or 90.

 

I'm getting rid of my excess lenses.. Trying to clear my mind and one of the 50APOs will have to go with the lot of lenses I'm going to be selling. So when I write this, it might seem a bit bias, simply because A) I obviously love the 50APO and B.) I'm actually considering selling one so it might seem like I'm talking it up.

 

Here goes.. The 50 Summilux-ASPH is a great wow lens. It's punchy, has nice colors and is sharp. If you nail focus it's breathtaking (closer up portraits). It's also a great lens for walking around. But by about 10-15 feet away the Noctilux starts to take over. I think for punching out the background or creating dreamy atmosphere to your images the Noctilux is great. The issue with it. It's big, not really sharp (unless stopped down where it turns into a completely different lens) and has issues with OOFH. Also I find the colors aren't as nice. A bit more muddy in comparison to the 50Lux. So for me it's always a question of how I intend to use the lens. And if I'm shooting subjects closer or further away.

As for the 50APO. It isn't any of those things mentioned above. It almost seems standard by comparison.. That is until you start to use it more. Then you realise that it just gives images such a realistic chrispness. The contrast and colors are realist but at the same time vivid and saturated. The only drawback to it is when you switch to other lenses and in the back of your mind you know something is missing. This feeling is lessened considerably with the M9M or M246. Which is why I mentioned above that it's wasted on the Monochrom. IF I were shooting with the monochrom I'd be tossed between using the 50Lux for it's size, or the Noct (where in bnw the flaws wide open are more well hidden).

 

Bottom line. If you buy the 50APO you'll need a month or so to convince yourself it was the right choice. IF you buy the Noctilux you'll probably want to sell it after a few months because the weight is just such a burden. Well unless you would do anything for that dreamy effect. Though if that were the case, I'd sooner suggest you buy a C645 80/2 or even the S006 + 100S. Both sharper and with less flaws wide open.

+1 having owned 3 

Lux - best bokeh, classical leica color, portable, good for any M, cant go wrong as the only 50mm lens, but many itch for a more expensive version after a while 

Nocti - if you want Nocti look effortlessly, magical when there is no light,  sometime too recognizable so watch it may make you complacent when every shot impress people... best for Sony A7III (actually better night combo than Leica M due to better ISO and DR sensor) or M with EVF (for the occasion when Nocti truly shines you wont see much in the RF)...  Stopping down at 1.4 it feels like Summilux. The weight? It is a life style. 

APO - clarity, high fidelity color, contrast fall off beyond focal plane.... use a monochrome if you want to show off resolving power. Vert few really need such resolving power but lux users usually settle with APO so they have no excuse not to go out and shoot anymore.

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On 10/15/2018 at 6:05 PM, xiaoheli said:

+1 having owned 3 

Lux - best bokeh, classical leica color, portable, good for any M, cant go wrong as the only 50mm lens, but many itch for a more expensive version after a while 

Nocti - if you want Nocti look effortlessly, magical when there is no light,  sometime too recognizable so watch it may make you complacent when every shot impress people... best for Sony A7III (actually better night combo than Leica M due to better ISO and DR sensor) or M with EVF (for the occasion when Nocti truly shines you wont see much in the RF)...  Stopping down at 1.4 it feels like Summilux. The weight? It is a life style. 

APO - clarity, high fidelity color, contrast fall off beyond focal plane.... use a monochrome if you want to show off resolving power. Vert few really need such resolving power but lux users usually settle with APO so they have no excuse not to go out and shoot anymore.

I have the Nocti (in Silver) APO summicron (in silver) and i sold my 50mm summilux (in silver). I use my Nocti about 90% of the time. It is my 'carry only one lens' lens. I'm now starting the use the APO more but the Nocti with the SL EVF is lovely to use. Compare it to my previous Nikon D3, 80-200 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 17-35 2.8 and the Nocti is a featherweight!

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