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Many Leica experts assume that sharkskin vulkanit was used because of the shortage of regular Vulkanit.

Sharkskin vulkanit is harder, a bit thicker than the regular one. This might be the reason why I did not yet see any Leica with broken sharkskin coverage. Many users however prefer the touch of “real” vulkanit.

Sharkskin was used by Leitz from 1948 until cca mid 1950. Predominantly on Ic, IIc and IIIc cameras. Hasbroeck is quoting SNs between 430xxx and 501xxx. But as well other models produced in this time have occasionally sharkskin covering. Some IIIa, some “Monte en Sarre” , dummy cameras and Betriebskameras from this time have it. Pictures below show postwar IIIb 357109 and IIIf 397635 (former Betriebskamera 063).

 

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Interesting variations of sharkskin covering is “horizontal” sharkskin. Olaf Nattenberg in his article (in German language) published in Vidom Nr. 98 from December 2009 gave interesting explanation why very few of sharkskin Leicas have horizontal sharkskin: sharkskin covering was delivered in sheets out of which the regular, vertical coverings have been cut. Leftover was used to cut coverings for  the barrel of Elmar 4/90, Hektor 4,5/135 but as well for the rear side of the front ring of Elmar 3,5/50. However the bigger pieces have been used to cut out camera coverings. This explanation is supported by the fact that horizontal sharkskin may be found on various SNs out the sharkskin range quoted above.

Olaf is quoting following horizontal sharkskin cameras: 443860, 473174, 478644, 481042, 482229 which he observed. Photo below shows 477018 with regular, vertical and 477473 with horizontal sharkskin covering.

 

It is not uncommon to find chrome defects on sharkskin Leicas. There is no  relevance to sharkskin covering, rather than this is timing coincidence – shortage of chrome in the postwar time.

 

So while the sharkskin Leica is somehow rare among all other Leicas the horizontal sharkskin is the rarity.

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A very nice set of photos, Jerzy. Generally, sharkskin is to be found on cameras in the post war 'c' family from about 1947 to 1950. There is some 'jumping around' with SNs as Leica seem to have held back some for later use. My two IIIcs with 485XXX SNs  from 1949 both have sharkskin covering. One of these was converted to a IIIf Black Dial but they kept the sharkskin covering. It also has no sign of the chrome pitting which is a bit of a 'badge of honour' for IIIcs from that era. My other 485XXX IIIc has the usual pitting. 

 

My IIc with SN 450XXX is, in fact, a later camera from 1951, because Leica held back the SNs. It has the 'conventional' covering despite falling into the range indicated by van Hasbroeck. My Ic with SN 562XXX is also from 1951 and also has 'conventional' covering. I am not surprised to hear that other cameras with various SNs may have the sharkskin covering. I believe that it was used during a 3 year or so period in the late 1940s (some maybe in 1950).  The fact that some cameras in the SN range do have the sharkskin and others don't is a clear indication that Leica did not always follow a clear numerical progression with SNs.

 

I agree that the sharkskin gives very good grip. It is a pity that it was discontinued. 

 

I will post some photos of my 'c' family; both war-time and 'post war'. The 'c' was a camera with a lot of interesting variations during its production lifetime.

 

William

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Here an example from 1949 and an Elmar 4_90 with the shark skin band from 1949 also

 

 

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"The 'c' was a camera with a lot of interesting variations during its production lifetime" - fully agree, William, especially when including wartime IIIc (which as a matter of fact is different construction than the postwar one). 

A question to the forum members - if anyone has horizontal sharkskin covering I'd appreciate short PM with model and SN (and photo, if available).

thank you jerzy

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I said that I would I would post pictures of my Leica 'c' family with sharkskin etc on this thread but I got delayed.

 

Firstly, here is my postwar Leica 'c' family:

 

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These are in SN order from left to right but this does not totally reflect the relative age of the cameras.

 

Leica IIc from 1951, with 5cm Elmar

Leica IIIc from 1949 with 'vertical sharkskin', converted to IIIf Black Dial with self-timer, with Leicavit SYOOM and 5cm Summitar

Leica IIIc from 1949 with 'vertical sharkskin', with characteristic 'pitting', OKARO and 5cm Elmar

Leica Ic from 1951 with SBOOI and 5cm Elmar

 

The two cameras in the middle would have started out in life exactly the same.

 

To complete the picture, here is my wartime Leica 'c' family:

 

 

These are all 'stepper' models and are in SN order from left to right

 

Leica IIIc from 1941-42 with red shutter cloth and with 5cm Elmar removed. I believe that this is a replacement shutter. I am also pretty sure that this was originally a red shutter camera.

Leica IIIc, grey, from 1941-42 with a 'black rim' Summar. The base had been adapted with a 'Technica' flash attachment which does not work. I change it for another baseplate if I want to use the camera

Leica IIIcK , grey, from 1941-42 with 5cm Elmar

 

I will also post a link to this post on the recent thread about a chrome IIIcK as it is also relevant to that.

 

William

Edited by willeica
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My collection has only one sharkskin IIIc, a 1949 model (475xxx) with vertical sharkskin and a 1949 Summitar, round aperture, coated. Dent in the top, chrome peeled by one strap lug, but I treasure it. My aunt brought it back from Germany after working there teaching children of the occupation forces. Then it went to her brother, and I had it serviced for him by Leitz in the '70s. He left it to me when he died. It still works fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

After reading this interesting thread, I checked my Fontenelle Collection files and discovered no less than 29 references within the agreed serials limits for "sharkskin" body coverings. Most are IIIc (or ex-IIIc mods to IIIf), but also six IIc (nº 441570, 441832, 442367, 443984, 444493 and 445815) and four Ic (nº 455499 - very first batch -, 457298, 458855 and 458940). All 29 references display "sharkskin" covering (unfortunately, I did not note if it was "normal" or "horizontal"), except the four ones updated to IIIf (nº 438937,462837, 479222 and 509242),  but including two IIf upgraded from IIIc nº 453813 and Ic nº 46760101. Also noticeable is the fact that all were manufactured in 1948-1950 and that they are engraved "D.R.P.", with two exceptions : IIIf upgrading engraved "D.B.P. and GmbH and a IIIc nº 486944 whose chrome has clearly been re-made and which is engraved D.R.P. and GmbH (?).

And finally, at least five had clear chrome defects.

As for the four "Monté en Sarre" that passed through my collection (nº 359101, 135, 293 and305), they all were sharkskin covered. One was Leica III (nº 359135), all the others Leica IIIa.

Two more remarks : my two Leica IIIc engraved "AERONAUTICA MILITARE" (nº 465697 and 465857) are also "D.R.P.", and the nº 471743 and 474544 both have the same "shaped" speed dial for VACU flash (CMVOO) contact.

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  • 2 years later...

In a recent thread about camera auctions, I mentioned that I had acquired some more sharkskin Leicas to add to those I had already in my collection. I was born in 1949 and, as the IIIc sharkskin was current about that time, cameras with that covering have always fascinated me. The story about sharkskin is not just about the 'c' models, but also involves the early 'f' Black Dial models as well. In some cases there are obvious conversions of sharkskin 'c' models to 'f' status, but with some it is possible that the factory may have used earlier 'c' body shells to make 'f' models. Around that time serial number sequences are more than a little bit mixed up with some series being said to be spread over a number of years, eg 1949/50, and there is also some evidence of serial numbers being kept over for later use, which makes the whole sharkskin 'c' and 'f' BD series more than a little confusing. I am posting these photos and the relevant information with a view to seeing what other forum members may have by way of information about this period.

Below is a photo of my current sharkskin models. Note that I am using '/' to indicate a conversion. The condition of these cameras ranges from near mint to some with characteristic 'period pitting' which is something of a 'badge of honour' for cameras from that era. This could, of course, mean that the 'minty' ones were re-chromed at a later stage before I bought them. All seem to be in excellent mechanical condition.

Front Row Left to Right

1. IIIc SN 475042 from 1949 IIIc range 465001 to 480000

2. Ic SN 455234 from 1949-50 Ic range 455001 to 460000

Back Row Left to Right

1. IIIc SN 485856 from 1949-50 IIIc range 485001 to 495000

2. IIIc/IIIf BD SN 485593 from 1949-50 range 485001 to 495000 (with a SYOOM /Leicavit)

3. Ic/IIf BD SN 455660 from Ic 1949-50 range 4555001 to 460000 (I have noted that there are quite a few Ic models with sharkskin converted to IIf BDs leading me to the belief that some left over Ic shells may have been used for early 'f' production - see photo and further comments below)

I had posted a photo of my post war 'c' models earlier in this thread and two with 'ordinary vulcanite' not shown in the photo below have SNs as follows Ic SN 562499 from 1951 Ic range 560001 to 562800 and IIc SN 450271 from 1951 IIc range 450001 to 451000 (note that this is a lower SN than those for earlier cameras listed above eg SN 475042 from 1949).

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Now for some details from the converted cameras shown in the photo above. The IIIc/IIIf BD in the middle of the back row has a Black Dial plate screwed on below the shutter dial indicating that it has been a conversion from a IIIc body/ top plate. Photo below.

Now for the camera on the right of the back row. This is a Ic converted to IIf Black Dial and in this case the whole top plate has been replaced and the Black Dial is now engraved or stamped as shown in the photo below. I have seen quite a few example of such converted models on eBay and elsewhere leading me to believe that there may be a possibility that some of these were not customers' cameras sent back for 'upgrade' and rather that they were unsold Ic body shells that were left over in the factory which were used for early 'f' production with the addition of new top plates carrying the same SN.

I know that there is a lot of detail here. I am posting these pictures and the information with a view to comparing notes with other collectors. The one thing I am missing is a sharkskin model with horizontal covering made possibly from ends of rolls as speculated by Jerzy. There was one in a recent auction that I missed, but I did not spot it until after the auction as it was 'hiding' among the 'f' models. Another conversion, I suppose.

William

 

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This thread got me interested again in having a sharkskin IIIc (briefly had one a few years ago but sold off) so I just bought a nice looking one (vertical sharkskin pattern) via ebay. Should have it in a few days. However, I see at least three listings there at this time for the horizontal pattern IIIc models, if one is interested in those...

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here i smy IIIc horizontal sharkskin. actually I wrote an article a couple of years ago about horizontal sharkskin in VIDOM of german Leica Historica e.V.

Leica IIIc by nattens, auf Flickr

OLAF

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34 minutes ago, Kleinkamera said:

This thread got me interested again in having a sharkskin IIIc (briefly had one a few years ago but sold off) so I just bought a nice looking one (vertical sharkskin pattern) via ebay. Should have it in a few days. However, I see at least three listings there at this time for the horizontal pattern IIIc models, if one is interested in those...

Don't forget to look closely at Black Dial 'f's which may also have sharkskin. The one I missed in a recent auction was an 'f' with horizontal sharkskin which seems to have been a converted 'c'.

William

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1 hour ago, Dr. No said:

Here you can download my article about sharkskin horizontal  /quer - sorry for it's in german ;)  :D

http://nattenberg.org/public/pdf/Vidom98_Sharkskin_quer.pdf

Thanks, Olaf. Jerzy had given me some idea about this article and what it contains. Any thoughts about the 'f' BD issues which are not totally clear?  I see a lot of II/IIIf BD cameras around with sharkskin covering which almost certainly come from 'c' origins judging by the serial numbers. See item 48 at the last Rahn Photographica Auction No 40 which is a IIIf BD with horizontal sharkskin, but with an SN 481121 it is, according to the usual lists, a IIIc from 1949-50. There are often some sharkskin 'f' BDs on eBay which clearly have 'c' origins.

William

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well I think there are different kinds of conversions: the ones where  they put a new shutterspeed-plate on the camera (your first photo) and those where the chandged the whole cap of the camera (snd picture), but they are/were all "c" cameras

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For those interested in serial numbers, I have some sharkskin cameras, all IIc and IIIc with numbers:

438005, 440372, 460149, 460727, 467743, 471173, 488285, 491082,  496949.

I also have Leitz binoculars, early post war with sharkskin covering. Maybe benifiting of better grip for these.

Every one of these sharkskin cameras is perfect and without shrinkage, suggesting the sharkskin was longer lasting. All seem to be the vertical pattern for mine.

I have 135 Hektors with the sharkskin covering, both in chrome and black paint, mostly arround 700xxx.

 

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On 12/16/2018 at 3:24 AM, alan mcfall said:

 

For those interested in serial numbers, I have some sharkskin cameras, all IIc and IIIc with numbers:

438005, 440372, 460149, 460727, 467743, 471173, 488285, 491082,  496949.

I also have Leitz binoculars, early post war with sharkskin covering. Maybe benifiting of better grip for these.

Every one of these sharkskin cameras is perfect and without shrinkage, suggesting the sharkskin was longer lasting. All seem to be the vertical pattern for mine.

I have 135 Hektors with the sharkskin covering, both in chrome and black paint, mostly arround 700xxx.

 

Thanks Alan. Do you have any 'f' BD cameras with sharkskin? There was either an extensive upgrade ( 'c' to 'f') program at that time or Leica was using unsold 'c'  body shells for the initial 'f' BD production. Any evidence of either type of process would be useful.

Some observations based upon the current stock on the Leica Shop Vienna (who have plenty of examples which are easily viewed) are below:

In the Ics, SN 459677 from 1949 has normal vulcanite, whereas SN 455173 (an earlier SN), said to be from 1951 (a later year), has sharkskin.

The 44XXX range was used for the IIc all the way through from 1948 to 1951- see examples 440130 with plain vulcanite from 1948, 441136 with sharkskin said to be from 1951 and  445106 with sharkskin said to be from 1950. The SNs on the Leica Shop site may have come from whoever 'booked' the item, but the dates shown are somewhat 'overlapping' . Also the earliest one has plain vulcanite whereas the later ones which overlap into the 'f' BD era have sharkskin. 

Leica Shop has two Betriebskameras for the IIIf based on IIc models from the Bawendi collection but these cameras from c1948 seem to have SNs (397654 and 397815) from 'stepper' models. The top plate is completely replaced (no screwed on plate) and the vulcanite is plain. The site lists 3 IIIc cameras in the 48xxx and 49xxx ranges with sharkskin. IIIc SN 506360 from 1950 seems to have an unusual covering which is nether normal vulcanite nor sharkskin, but seems to be 'in between'. 

Moving on to the 'f' black dials 

IIf Black Dial SN 457585 with sharkskin was originally a Ic from 1949-50 but is said to be from 1951. There is a full new top plate, of course.

IIIf Black Dial SN 436774 with sharkskin was originally a IIIc from 1946-47 and is also said to have been from 1946. It has the screw on Black Dial plate under the speed dial like one of mine.

In the period 1946 to 1951 Leica used sharkskin but this did not happen consistently throughout that period. It also saw overlaps between serial numbers which were not just used on a simple time sequence and Leica often went back to earlier sequences for later examples. Also there was overlap between the 'c' and 'f' BD models with sharkskin which could be explained by an upgrade program or by Leica using older body shells for later production. It is a fascinating little micro period in the history of Leica cameras where there are no obvious answers, perhaps not until we see the full details in the Leica Archives.

Once again, apologies for all of the details. The Leica Shop examples more or less match what I have in my collection.

William

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

So far I have only these two items which have the sharkskin covering. IIIc (1950 No 507609) and Hektor 135 (1949 Nr 699967), both recent (but separate) acquisitions. The RF needs some adjustment (goes past infinity, so to speak) so off it will go to Don G before too long.

A nice little Ic with sharkskin interests me, as well.

I see that a IIIc with horizontal placement of the sharkskin pattern is still lingering on ebay...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LEICA-IIIC-3C-VERY-CLEAN-FILM-TESTED-IIIC-SHARK-SKIN-BRIGHT-RANGEFINDER/201621960482?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

James

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  • 5 weeks later...

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this, but I've got a sharkskin Leica IIIc that has been confusing me ever since I found it in an antique store recently. Maybe someone here can help? On the main shutter speed dial (not the slow speed dial, which is missing the push knob) there is an outer ring with a circular bump on top. Does anyone here know what this is for? I've only seen one other camera online with it ( http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/camera-11429-Leica_IIIC (Modele 1949 sharkskin).html  ) but there is no description of it there.

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