AF settings advice for Dynamic Tracking

[Paul925]

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I've used my SL for several months now and I'm planning on photographing an upcoming 5K run.  Since this will be my first time using the SL in "dynamic tracking" mode, I'm hoping someone could please give me advice as to the best AF settings.  

 

I'm assuming I need to select "Dynamic Tracking" (or would Face Detect work?).  Beyond that, I'm not entirely clear from reading the manual as to the pros and cons of choosing "Point", "Field", or "Zone" when tracking a subject.   For example, I use Point in static mode to get more precise control over the focus point, but if I choose "Point" to get a specific runner, will tracking be handed off to the other AF points if (when) he/she moves off of that AF point, or does only the individual AF point remain active?  Similarly, if I choose "Zone", does the tracking get handed off to the remaining AF points if the object moves out of the selected "Zone"?  Applying my experiences with Nikons, I think I should choose "Zone", but my internet searches haven't found anything explaining how things work with the SL.  Any help in pointing me in the right direction on AF settings for dynamic tracking will be greatly appreciated!  

[Jeffry Abt]

Paul, I am interested in the answers to your questions as well. Hopefully some answers are forthcoming!

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[sillbeers15]

I'm also learning to use the AF tracking as well. I notice that using the AF tracking on AFC will allow the shutter to be released but at the risk of a not well focused subject at times, however set at AFS can even be more frustrating tracking a moving subject as the shutter release will lock and only release after the focus box turns 'green', many times the precise moment to capture the scene was lost. based on my experience, the mis-focus might not be entirely be due to out of focus issue, shutter speed too slow for the said application can be the main cause of a blur picture. So nailing the appropriate shutter speed, especially with pending motion (just the amount of blurness @ background to suggest speed) is key to the situation. For example, > 1/1000 for birds in flight due to wings flapping, race car pending shot can be as slow as 1/60,...not sure about appropriate shutter speed for capturing marathon runs although I run 5km, 4 times a week

[CiraCrowell]

I have found the SL lens AF system so unreliable I've been using my wonderful R lenses on the SL and having a ball with the classic glass on the new body.  However, upcoming projects necessitate using the SL lenses.  I tested the SL zooms against their R counterparts and indeed the image quality improvement is substantial.  Now... to figure out the AF system...  There is not much info in the manual or online.  It would be great if someone could do an instructional video or blog writeup.  Here is what I've found using AFC, Dynamic Tracking, 1Point, 49 Points: 1. There is very little logic to the red box - exposure can be correct, the focus target can be clear and contrasty yet the box remains red.  2. Forcing the shutter when the box is red results in correct focus about 70% of the time (helpful but not good enough).  3. The lenses lock up too often, especially on white/bright or smooth targets like petals or clouds.  4. The manual override option has never worked.  5. When the shutter is half-pressed the green tracking box only appears 50% of the time (helpful but not good enough). 6. Tracking is very slow, not fast enough to follow a skateboarder.  7. There are not enough focus points to the edge of the frame.  8. The joystick is fiddly, I wish there were a smoother, faster way to direct the focus box.  8. My SL 24-90 has a metallic squeak when focusing, has anyone else experienced this?  Hoping someone has some tips...

Edited April 7, 2016 by CiraCrowell

[sillbeers15]

My initial AF tracking trial using the 24-90 trying to shoot birds in motion did not turn out well. Exploring further, I found that the proper shutter speed and ISO played a big part and I did not think I had the right lens. I'll revisit the subject again after I acquire the 90-280mm lens. Some articles, I've came across attribute to having a right AF lens plays a part to the success of AF focusing. 

On the 24-90mm, I had gotten nice sharp pics. when I try shooting at on coming cars along highways as I position myself at the side of the road.

No I did not have a squeaking metallic noise when my lens focuses,...if you want to understand more of the SL's AF system from internet source, try digging into Panasonic GH4. It was released earlier and there were more reviews on it. Judging from the similar stability system on lens, the similar focusing points and even the bottom additional battery connector, I would guess that the SL carries the Panasonic developed AF system. Based on what I've read so far, I would think that the AF found on the SL will not be the best in the world but it surely isn't a poor system at this point in time.

[steppenw0lf]

 8. The joystick is fiddly, I wish there were a smoother, faster way to direct the focus box.  

 

 

Hi Cira,

have you tried using the touch screen instead ? Or is it not active in this mode ? Or you don't want to take the camera from your eye, but you will do anyway for the joystick ...         (What exactly are you trying to achieve at this point ?)

Stephan

 

And regarding 9 : Noise in a lens (actually depending upon the level and type of noise) means for me a visit to the service man. (But I am always very careful with my gear, maybe too careful). Ask the camera shop for a comparison with another lens if available - if they don't have one, make an appointment, so that they can get another lens. (unless you bought from an online dealer).

Maybe there is something wrong and this is the reason why you found AF so unreliable.

 

P.S. you are right, I am also having a ball with the classic glass on the SL !  And I am not even a dancer ...    

Edited April 8, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[wlaidlaw]

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I found leaving AF tracking on caused more problems than it solved. I leave the camera in AFs mode and use the joystick to select focus point. It has now reached the point where I don't really need to think about it and I can move the joystick to select the focus point, pretty much instinctively. 

 

Wilson

[LocalHero1953]

I found leaving AF tracking on caused more problems than it solved. I leave the camera in AFs mode and use the joystick to select focus point. It has now reached the point where I don't really need to think about it and I can move the joystick to select the focus point, pretty much instinctively. 

 

Wilson

Wilson - are you misunderstanding this (it's not clear from your wording)? The choice of AFs and AFc is nothing to do with tracking, which is a separate setting. Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother....

 

But I agree that setting AFc and tracking together is confusing; I suspect they can't easily work together: you're asking the SL both to focus on a single defined object, and watch out for other possible objects to focus on - i.e. two possibly conflicting processes.

I have tried AFs and tracking together, and it seems to work, but I'm waiting to find the best scenario to test it in anger.

 

As with any other camera I have used, I find face recognition is a nice idea that always focuses on the wrong face or takes too long to find a face that isn't face-on, so I don't use it. But I know others are happy with the technology

 

However, I wish that, in AFs mode, you could still take a shot when focus is not achieved (red box): either at the current focus setting, or a "snap" focus setting as other cameras do. I don't like a camera that knows better than I do when I want to take a shot. In AFc you can take a shot even if there is no green box.

 

It is not clear to me what the focus point size is when using tracking. The moment you half press the shutter the focus point changes to a rectangle, whether you have previously selected 1-point, zone or field - I can't see any difference in focus tracking performance with any of the three either.

Edited April 8, 2016 by LocalHero1953

[Ingo]

@ Paul925: 

Unfortunately I don't use AFc and Dynamic Tracking often, so I'm not an expert. But my current findings are:

'Dynamic Tracking' works well for horizontal movements. E.g. someone is walking from left to the right within the frame.

AFc is useful if the object moves away or to the camera.

 

 

However, I wish that, in AFs mode, you could still take a shot when focus is not achieved (red box): either at the current focus setting, or a "snap" focus setting as other cameras do. I don't like a camera that knows better than I do when I want to take a shot. In AFc you can take a shot even if there is no green box.

 

I set the SL to manual focus. Then I can press the joystick to get autofocus. This enables me also to release the shutter and still take a shot when focus is not achieved. 

[LocalHero1953]

I set the SL to manual focus. Then I can press the joystick to get autofocus. This enables me also to release the shutter and still take a shot when focus is not achieved. 

Sure, there are ways round this.

But then, of course, tracking is not available.

Edited April 8, 2016 by LocalHero1953

[LocalHero1953]

I've just read the manual: tracking uses single point focusing, not zone or field. And that's what it looks like.

[ramarren]

Wilson - are you misunderstanding this (it's not clear from your wording)? The choice of AFs and AFc is nothing to do with tracking, which is a separate setting. Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother....

 

But I agree that setting AFc and tracking together is confusing; I suspect they can't easily work together: you're asking the SL both to focus on a single defined object, and watch out for other possible objects to focus on - i.e. two possibly conflicting processes.

I have tried AFs and tracking together, and it seems to work, but I'm waiting to find the best scenario to test it in anger.

 

As with any other camera I have used, I find face recognition is a nice idea that always focuses on the wrong face or takes too long to find a face that isn't face-on, so I don't use it. But I know others are happy with the technology

 

However, I wish that, in AFs mode, you could still take a shot when focus is not achieved (red box): either at the current focus setting, or a "snap" focus setting as other cameras do. I don't like a camera that knows better than I do when I want to take a shot. In AFc you can take a shot even if there is no green box.

 

It is not clear to me what the focus point size is when using tracking. The moment you half press the shutter the focus point changes to a rectangle, whether you have previously selected 1-point, zone or field - I can't see any difference in focus tracking performance with any of the three either.

 

 

The SL's face recognition isn't as sophisticated as it was with my Panasonic G1, or is with the Olympus E-M1 and E-PL1 where it essentially does the right thing about 95% of the time. On those bodies, I could have it enabled most of the time ... When they can't find a face, they default to the limited area setting. And when they find multiple faces, you can quickly toggle through the highlight rectangles and pick the one you want the camera to elect as the primary focus plane. 

 

The SL's face detect is more a point use tool: I find it quite convenient and accurate when I'm shooting people, but it confuses the AF if there are no actual faces in the scene. 

 

I've not found much use for AFC or Tracking yet, and so haven't used them at all. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by ramarren

[Ingo]

Sure, there are ways round this.

But then, of course, tracking is not available.

 

This was one of my first feature requests for the next firmware. Hopefully we will see it then.

[wlaidlaw]

I very rarely use AFc as it can easily take a photo before the camera has obtained focus. The only time I use AFc is on the very rare occasions I take video. However I found that even AFs and focus tracking seemed to strain the brain of the SL and it ended up not picking up a focus at all, too often for comfort. Ditto face recognition, so I don't use either of those facilities at present. These are the sort of features you would hope would be improved with FW updates, as has certainly been the case for Olympus Cameras but their FW department appears to work at a rather different pace to Leica's. Hopefully now they have got the S FW update out of the way, they will be able to concentrate on the SL. 

 

Wilson

[Paul925]

Thank you for all the assistance on this!

[jonoslack]

I've found tracking to be fairly useless on all the mirrorless cameras I've used (Olympus, Sony, Leica). But the saving grace is very accurate and fast point focusing. I've found it better to have single point focusing, follow the target and mash the shutter at the critical point. Nails it most of the time. 

[CiraCrowell]

Greetings Leica Friends, Wonderful responses, it's helpful to hear the different techniques for using the SL lenses in AF or MF.  90% of my work the past few years has been done with R lenses, but I miss the focal length lines on the SL lenses since I prefer to prefocus.  The only time I don't use the R lenses is for extreme hiking/trekking, i.e. above 10,000ft, where I need weatherproofing and AF because the physical exertion of hiking 8+ mountain miles a day can leave the hands shaky for fine tuned focusing.  SL AFc is ok because you can force the shutter and there is a good chance it will focus correctly, especially using Low Continuous shooting, but shooting despite the red box is somewhat disconcerting after a while.  Tracking is helpful for reframing on the fly or photographing (slow moving) subjects, again, I just wish it were more reliable.  I never use face recognition because I photograph so many other subjects.  I do not use the touch screen unless holding the camera away at an angle for a macro shot because my Pelle SL half-case has a screen cover (removable but great for protection and to deter chimping). I suppose touch screen would be the fastest way to select focus, it just seems awkward when the camera is held to the eye. Before the SL release I took the A7RII trekking and the AF was phenomenal, though the menuing and image quality made me miss Leica.  It's not unreasonable to wish the SL lenses had remotely similar AF reliability. Hopefully firmware updates will improve functionality.  Has anyone been successful switching from AF to MF with the focus ring?  

[wlaidlaw]

MF on the 24-90 is I feel "work in progress". It seems laggy, vague and inaccurate to me, with quite a lot of backwards and forwards tweaking before you are sure you have focus correct. Compared with using a mechanically focussed lens R or M lens on either the SL or an M, it feels distinctly second rate. After three weeks using the SL for a few hours a day, leaving the focus AF area setting to "Field", I found the joystick became totally second nature to select the focus point. I found this much quicker than having to take a hand off to use the touch screen. The touch screen is excellent when you are using a tripod but less so when hand held. Somewhat to my surprise, I have found I am close to as quick focusing an M lens on the SL, as I would be on a rangefinder and that is after 50+ years of practice on a rangefinder. In low light, I now prefer focusing my Noctilux on the SL to an M because you get a preview of depth of focus. 

 

Wilson

[jonoslack]

 Has anyone been successful switching from AF to MF with the focus ring?  

 

yes . . if I undersand you right - half press the shutter, and then whilst keeping it half pressed focus with the focus ring.

Works for me

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[JeffWright]

yes . . if I undersand you right - half press the shutter, and then whilst keeping it half pressed focus with the focus ring.

Works for me

 

 

ahh...that's the secret.