gu_al Posted September 22, 2018 Share #21 Posted September 22, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I dont know what do you think but it seems pretty much the same behaviour. Something went wrong with the new sensor and the Elmarit 28mm profile. Moreover I've found the same issue with the 24mm Elmar. Let's hope Leica would be kind enough and fine tune it in a future firmware. Right now it turned the 28mm Elmarit useless on the M9. Btw, I've installed the latest fw 1.216 and it's still there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 22, 2018 Posted September 22, 2018 Hi gu_al, Take a look here green cast in M9 with new firmware 1204. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted September 22, 2018 Share #22 Posted September 22, 2018 I dont know what do you think but it seems pretty much the same behaviour. Something went wrong with the new sensor and the Elmarit 28mm profile. Moreover I've found the same issue with the 24mm Elmar. Let's hope Leica would be kind enough and fine tune it in a future firmware. Right now it turned the 28mm Elmarit useless on the M9. Btw, I've installed the latest fw 1.216 and it's still there. Show an example photo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 22, 2018 Share #23 Posted September 22, 2018 Show an example photo. If you browse to page 1 of this topic you will find a lot of examples. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted September 22, 2018 Share #24 Posted September 22, 2018 If you browse to page 1 of this topic you will find a lot of examples. No.......one of yours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 22, 2018 Share #25 Posted September 22, 2018 Mine are also there, just look for my Flickr links. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keek Posted September 23, 2018 Share #26 Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) I have the same in M9 and E28/2.8A. Even before sensor replacement. I use Adjustment Brush in LR (Tint +100 in white balance). Edited September 23, 2018 by Keek 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
low325 Posted September 23, 2018 Share #27 Posted September 23, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would’ve thought this was heavy vignetting. Now I’m curious about mine. It I don’t have a 28mm to check. I do have a 50 APO but I believe this lens is recognized correctly on the lens detect https://flic.kr/p/MzstZK here is my sample of green - cyan cast coming from new sensor - elmarit 28 11677 combination. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 24, 2018 Share #28 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) Hi. Just to clarify, the lens is correctly identified with the 6-bit coding as Elmarit 28m Asph. Even in manual, the green cast is still there. I can confirm that with the old sensor, the Elmarit DNGs didnt have any green cast. I hope it is something related with the new sensor having a slightly different coating and so requiring lens profile update, this could be (hopefully) solved in a future fw upgrade. I doubt, but it seems someone forget to test all lenses before releasing the new firmware. Edited September 24, 2018 by gu_al Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 24, 2018 Share #29 Posted September 24, 2018 I have read of problems with the Elmarit-M 28mm ASPH before, on several different bodies. It's a lovely lens on film, but it seem it doesn't get along with digital sensors very well. (My Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 is similar: it's a favorite on film, but shows color shifting and other issues with the M9, M240, M262 and SL601 bodies. Same on Sony NEX 6 and A7. However, it works beautifully with the Ricoh GXR M-mount camera unit and the Leica CL bodies.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 24, 2018 Share #30 Posted September 24, 2018 Yes I can understand wide angles get more problematic, but before the sensor replacement the Elmarit-M 28mm Asph used to perform flawless on my M-E. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted September 24, 2018 Share #31 Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) Many thanks for your help. I will wait for your feedback before open a case to my Leica dealer.I did a quick test. Sorry for the delay. M9 with new sensor FW 1.216 jpg ooc, no postprocessing, color/contrast set to "standard" Target: Manfrotto/Lastolite Greycard Shot: Defocused, f/2.8, auto exposure WB: Auto Images: One picture each with lens detection set to "none" vs. "auto" Cross-checked absence/presence of lens detection in EXIF data Cross-checked RGB value of image center: fairly even grey with and without lens detection (within the reproducibility limits of my non-scientific test setup) RGB values at center are ~46 in each channel, corresponding to 18% brightness which is what a greycard should be. Thus metering worked OK. Now comes the interesting part: RGB values in far corner (less absolute brightness without lens detection, since there is more vignetting) 28 ASPH 2.8: | R 19.5 | G 20 | B 19.7 No lens detection | R 14.3 | G 15.2 | B 16.6 Thus, with lens detection set to "auto", firmware 1.216 seems to correct the tint rather decently in the corners, whereas without detection there is a measurable (and reproducible in all corners and on several shots) tendency to overrepresent green and blue. EDIT: [ Are you still on 1.210? Could you check with 1.216? ] You have already said so in your post #21, sorry. Thus, with me it seems to work OK <puzzled> Kind regards Edited September 24, 2018 by schattenundlicht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted September 24, 2018 Share #32 Posted September 24, 2018 I have read of problems with the Elmarit-M 28mm ASPH before, on several different bodies. It's a lovely lens on film, but it seem it doesn't get along with digital sensors very well. [...] On my M10 it works like a charm and is really excellent value for money. I do not desire any other 28mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 24, 2018 Share #33 Posted September 24, 2018 Good to hear someone can get the Elmarit to work well with the M9, there's still hope Many thanks for all the tests, it was helpful but have you tried with any other aperture rather than 2.8? Mainly because I've found my results get worst when stopping down from f5.6 onwards. I also did some additional tests, manually setting to other profiles and i've found a lot of differences. For example the Summicron 35mm Asph profile improves it. As soon I will have some time I will make new tests with and without the lens detection to check if there's a difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted September 24, 2018 Share #34 Posted September 24, 2018 Good to hear someone can get the Elmarit to work well with the M9, there's still hope Many thanks for all the tests, it was helpful but have you tried with any other aperture rather than 2.8? Mainly because I've found my results get worst when stopping down from f5.6 onwards. Maybe wide open the vignetting masks part of the false color hue in „real world“ images. Anyway, if the problem persists, you might send a pair of images (one DNG and one in-camera jpg) to Wetzlar Customer Service and ask for their opinion. Please keep us updated on their reply. Kind regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu_al Posted September 24, 2018 Share #35 Posted September 24, 2018 Yes. I will keep you posted as soon i get more feedback. Thank you all for the help and support. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Kulibaba Posted October 13, 2018 Share #36 Posted October 13, 2018 I have the same problem with Elmarit 2.8/28 Asph. and 1210 firmware Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted October 13, 2018 Share #37 Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) I just returned from a trip where I used M10 and M9 alternately with different lenses. With the Elmarit 28ASPH as well as with an uncoded Zeiss C Biogon 35, default white balance on imported DNGs (LR „as captured“) shows a yukky bluegreen tint on M9, whereas pictures with the same lenses on M10 show natural default colors. Somehow the current M9 firmware has a strange default white balance output. With the (coded) Elmarit 28 ASPH, M9 ooc jpgs with lens detection turned on are OK, whereas with lens detection turned off, the false hue is present. With the (uncoded) Zeiss, default w/b DNG and ooc jpgs also show the crappy colors. I have still some apo 90 asph images to check (UWA‘s are used exclusively on my M10). Pre sensor replacement, the color rendition of the M9 was one of the things, I liked about the camera. Although I mostly work for b/w final images, this issue is a nuisance. I hope that Leica will work on (re-)improving the firmware, even if the M9 has been out of production for a while and their IT capacities migt be fully absorbed by the problematic Foto app launch. Although one can devise a colour profile of one’s own, an M series Leica should not give such garish results without user workarounds. @pibitller @gu_al: Did you file a formal firmware bug ticket with Leica, so that other users like me could give Leica additional input and/or sample images? Edited October 13, 2018 by schattenundlicht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted October 14, 2018 Share #38 Posted October 14, 2018 On 9/23/2018 at 12:54 AM, gu_al said: [...] Btw, I've installed the latest fw 1.216 and it's still there. According to Leica, 1.216 merely adds support for Thambar 90 & Lux 75. No bugfixes or additional features. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted October 14, 2018 Share #39 Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) UPDATE: I did some additional systematic testing (images following in subsequent posts to this thread) that seems to clarify the situation to me. (1) The new sensor (maybe with different cover glass, as the old one was prone to corrosion) introduces a cyan hue. As a side note, many inferior glasses in photo frames etc. introduce a green hue, whereas more expensive „museum quality“ glass does not. (2) The magnitude of the visible effect depends on focal length, i.e. is all the more visible, the wider the lens. This makes sense, as the oblique rays from wide angle lenses hit the sensor periphery at a wider angle, geometrically increasing the distance that the light passes through the cover glass, and/or introducing some artefacts with regard to the sensor pixel‘s microlenses. (3) With the appropriate lens profile employed, the camera produces ooc jpegs that correct for this false color hue (with firmware 1.216). (4) Conjecture: The problem has been reported most widely with the 28 ASPH because it is the widest focal length that many users employ on their M cameras. However, it is there with other lenses as well, albeit to a lesser amount [see (2)]. (5) With uncoded / third party lenses, it seems advisable to create individual colour profiles for processing DNG files or to manually select the „next best“ Leica lens profile when shooting. I would be grateful for anybody reproducing/ falsifying my findings or commenting thereupon. Kind regards Mathias Edited October 14, 2018 by schattenundlicht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted October 14, 2018 Share #40 Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Leica Elmarit 28 mm ASPH with lens detection (All images shot in broad daylight, auto white balance, ooc jpeg, M9, fw 1.216, 1/4000 or 1/3000, f/5.6 or f/8) Note: Deliberate underexposure of the 18% greycard target in order to avoid overexposure/ full saturation of neutral white background. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 14, 2018 by schattenundlicht Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258854-green-cast-in-m9-with-new-firmware-1204/?do=findComment&comment=3612155'>More sharing options...
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