wlaidlaw Posted April 21, 2019 Share #101 Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I think I may have the later of my 2 Summars, a chrome one from 1937 coated. I am trying to put together an exact copy of my father's favourite Leica, a IIIa with a Summar (coated just post war and re-coated in 1965) and 2 speed MOOLY, which was all stolen in 1967. I have found a lovely IIIa, plus the Summar, with which it was sold originally by Wallace Heaton of New Bond Street, in 1937 (I have the original receipt). I will only be the second owner of this camera, having bought it from the daughter of the first owner. I have also got a working 2 speed MOOLY, well at least on the higher speed. The IIIa and MOOLY are with Malcolm Taylor for a CLA. I have not sent him the Summar, while I decide whether or not to get it coated. Malcolm is currently finishing off work which got held up during his illness last year and has not started the CLA. He has disassembled my 250FF Reporter to see what parts are needed but not ordered them yet, so I suspect if I did send him the Summar, it could be a year before I saw it again. I might wait until Alan Starkie has his coating machine up and running but again, he currently has had my M7, M4-P, M4-2 Winder and M3 for repair/CLA since November, admittedly held up by lack of parts supply from Leica. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 21, 2019 by wlaidlaw 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3726941'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 21, 2019 Posted April 21, 2019 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Summar 5cm variations. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dr. No Posted April 21, 2019 Share #102 Posted April 21, 2019 Summar #345801 from 1937 with Nooky-Hesum Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3726953'>More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted April 22, 2019 Share #103 Posted April 22, 2019 Provided their are NO serious scratches in the glass, it's a wonderful lens of character. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted April 22, 2019 Share #104 Posted April 22, 2019 Nice equipment. Personally I have a superb 1938 coated version of the Summar ; which yields amazing photos wide open. I always us a sunshade on this lens, and focus at 7x in digital. I bought a uncoated version on eBay and it was terribly scratched; the photos were very bad, and I sent it back. I trying to get a Unscratched good example, from the 222xxx serial # days, to do a comparison shoot. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted April 23, 2019 Share #105 Posted April 23, 2019 ...pair of black rim.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3727907'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted April 24, 2019 Share #106 Posted April 24, 2019 I recently added a 16th black model III to my collection. This one a 1938 Black and Chrome version. I calculate that of the 27366 (Band I data) Black paint III's, only 3000 were black with chrome features. From 1936 until 1939. All chrom cameras were significantly more popular than black paint during this time. This camera came with chrome Summar number 503755. This was interesting to me, as it is beyond what factory records (H. Thiele) show as the final Summar production lot 503001-600. I have recorded 3 other Summars above 503600, so it may be that the "unallocated lot" of 503600-800 may represent the true end of the Summar. It is uncoated as expected for 1939 and has also the hex diaphragm. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3728264'>More sharing options...
Hello Posted April 27, 2019 Share #107 Posted April 27, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) WIth a black rimm version and a serial number of 193***, what lens cap would be period appropriate for it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted April 27, 2019 Share #108 Posted April 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Hello said: WIth a black rimm version and a serial number of 193***, what lens cap would be period appropriate for it? 6 hours ago, Hello said: WIth a black rimm version and a serial number of 193***, what lens cap would be period appropriate for it? A A36 heavy chrome lens cap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted April 27, 2019 Share #109 Posted April 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, eastwestphoto said: A A36 heavy chrome lens cap. Thanks very much, I expected it would be the 2619 bakelite version but good to know it's something else. Is there a specific part number for the one you mentioned? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted April 28, 2019 Share #110 Posted April 28, 2019 Part No. may be in the Dennis Laney book? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 28, 2019 Share #111 Posted April 28, 2019 Jack the Hat Photographic in the UK has new metal A36 embossed "Leica" lens caps in both black and satin chrome, which are virtually indistinguishable from the Leica originals. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted May 17, 2019 Share #112 Posted May 17, 2019 I’ve just received this black nose Summar that has a very low serial number. I imagine a conversion from rigid.. Is there an official first serial number for the collapsible Summar? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3742573'>More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted May 17, 2019 Share #113 Posted May 17, 2019 Looks like its coated? That is a very low serial # does it have Hexagon or round iris blades? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted May 17, 2019 Share #114 Posted May 17, 2019 Must be the photo, the lens Is uncoated with hexagonal iris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted May 17, 2019 Share #115 Posted May 17, 2019 There are some very rare 10 blade circular iris out there from rigid conversions. They are very desirable for there collector value and photographic value. They have the Best of the Uncoated Bokeh. regards, don Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted May 23, 2019 Share #116 Posted May 23, 2019 I’ve just been made aware of a book by Willy Hahne in which he lists all the rigid summars produced and later conversions to collapsible. in this book serial no 167545 and 167548 are listed as rigid nickel but the lens in question 167547 along with 167546 are not there. the earliest conversion listed is 167594 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted May 28, 2019 Share #117 Posted May 28, 2019 This is a price list from October 1933, which shows prices for both the rigid and collapsible summars. The liste photo no.7332 from May 1933 apparently also has the same items listed. This makes me think that the two models may actually have been released at the same time, one rigid with a rotating barrel, and one with a non rotating barrel to use with Agfa filters. Options of nickel and chrome. I have been in touch with Leica who unfortunately don’t have records of my lens’s serial number being delivered or repaired/converted, so from here it’s guesswork! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3749435'>More sharing options...
Giuliobigazzi Posted May 29, 2019 Share #118 Posted May 29, 2019 * the sumus and sumar did not feature in the March 1933 price list, but both options featured in the May 1933 price list. One could assume procuction to have begun somewhere between these dates Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted May 29, 2019 Share #119 Posted May 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Giuliobigazzi said: * the sumus and sumar did not feature in the March 1933 price list, but both options featured in the May 1933 price list. One could assume procuction to have begun somewhere between these dates Thiele lists all lenses as both SUMUS and SUMAR starting from 167001. Laney says that the Rigid SUMAR was produced in 1933 and that the Collapsible SUMUS was produced from 1933 to 1940. The Rigid model is now much more expensive than the Collapsible model because of rarity. Your list shows that at the start the Rigid model was 25 RM less expensive. People who got their lenses 'upgraded' would have rightly felt that they were getting a 'better' lens, but now more than 85 years the relative value has dropped compared to a non 'upgraded' lens. Of course, it is likely that none of the photographers are around today to care about the matter. Also it was 2 RM more for the chrome models which parallels the situation for chrome cameras which were more expensive than the black paint models when they were launched. Now the situation is the other way around, more because of desirability than rarity in the case of cameras. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestphoto Posted May 29, 2019 Share #120 Posted May 29, 2019 2 hours ago, willeica said: Thiele lists all lenses as both SUMUS and SUMAR starting from 167001. Laney says that the Rigid SUMAR was produced in 1933 and that the Collapsible SUMUS was produced from 1933 to 1940. The Rigid model is now much more expensive than the Collapsible model because of rarity. Your list shows that at the start the Rigid model was 25 RM less expensive. People who got their lenses 'upgraded' would have rightly felt that they were getting a 'better' lens, but now more than 85 years the relative value has dropped compared to a non 'upgraded' lens. Of course, it is likely that none of the photographers are around today to care about the matter. Also it was 2 RM more for the chrome models which parallels the situation for chrome cameras which were more expensive than the black paint models when they were launched. Now the situation is the other way around, more because of desirability than rarity in the case of cameras. William Finding any Summar 5cm/2 in the #167xxx is darn hard! I been trying for years. The prices are always very high! I am looking for the unconverted Iris with the multi-blades that are NOT hexagon shaped. The photo below is a from this website the lens on the left is the German Summar and the one on the right is the Russian WW11 copy. Note the Iris difference. Its said that early Rigid Summar had a Multi-bladed circular Iris? while authors of Books concentrate on serial numbers and design variations, they often DONT think about the Iris blades and the effect on the Photo for the out of focus Bokeh. I do; so I wonder if any has seen a low serial # summar with circular blades that is NOT the Russian fake copy? Regards, Don Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257977-summar-5cm-variations/?do=findComment&comment=3749831'>More sharing options...
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