Is the SL a succes ?

[Manoleica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Jeff,

 

unfortunately you still have not understood, I wonder if you ever will or want.

I buy here where I live, and here the prices have never been down. (since 30 years)

I could not buy from the states, because then I would have to pay extra tax and this would make the prices even higher.

It would only be cheaper if I switched to US and never went home again.

But as soon as I cross the border with new equipment I have to pay extra duty and tax.

 

So as said already, experiences are different for different people or places, because they pay in different currencies.

 

Everybody should be able to understand that.

Agreed, but one can negotiate Free Shipping, Discounts on Batteries & Accessories etc.. The Camera itself might not be discounted but associated purchases can always be "discussed" --

[Jeff S]

Jeff,

 

unfortunately you still have not understood, I wonder if you ever will or want.

I buy here where I live, and here the prices have never been down. (since 30 years)

I could not buy from the states, because then I would have to pay extra tax and this would make the prices even higher.

It would only be cheaper if I switched to US and never went home again.

But as soon as I cross the border with new equipment I have to pay extra duty and tax.

 

So as said already, experiences are different for different people or places, because they pay in different currencies.

 

Everybody should be able to understand that.

 

I understand just fine..but discounts have applied in Europe, e.g., this one for £ 500 last year for the M in UK...    http://leicarumors.com/2015/07/31/leica-deals-safari-kits-are-also-12-off-new-500-off-offer-in-the-uk.aspx/

 

Can't speak for Switzerland, but I'd be very surprised if discounts haven't occurred, especially at the end of product cycles.....and, if not official, frequently subject to negotiation at that point.

 

Jeff

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[cpclee]

I got a free SL->M adapter with my purchase

 

 

 

Agreed, but one can negotiate Free Shipping, Discounts on Batteries & Accessories etc.. The Camera itself might not be discounted but associated purchases can always be "discussed" --

[scott kirkpatrick]

I got a free SL->M adapter with my purchase

Interesting.  So did I.  Leica must have handed some of these out to dealers at no extra cost.  Sorta like the IR/UV filters back in the good old days...

 

scott

[Peter H]

I'm curious - can you give me an example of a company that is doing what you want in terms of being open about unannounced products?

All we need is a broad indication of the direction, not a detailed specification. Many companies do this, letting people know what kind of products they're developing. Car companies are an example: they keep their next model release tightly under wraps, but make successive press releases that allow prospective customers to plan, if they so wish, in anticipation of changing their car; usually you'll know the body type, the engine type and size and so on. Even the design direction is often well known in advance.

 

But there's a better reason for asking for this than the inadequate argument about precedent.

 

Leica does quite well from positioning itself at the top of the camera market. We pay premium prices because of the unique qualities that we perceive in Leica products. And as this forum amply demonstrates, many people develop a close relationship with Leicas. How about the company offering something a little extra in return to help and even encourage customers who are perhaps stretching their financial resources to afford a new camera? How about strengthening the bond with their customers even more by giving them a better insight into what the company is working on?

 

There's a need for corporate confidentiality, and protecting slow developments from the rapid rip-off practices that lower-price companies often perfect. That is understood. But within that framework, and acknowledging that the power of the excitement of the unknown and the whole marketing strategy, I believe there is still room for Leica to develop a more open relationship with the people that it wants to attract into its family of customers, and retain.

 

So what if it is a little unusual ( though certainly not unique)? Leica's valuable reputation and ability to sell top-price products has not been built by following the crowd.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Peter H

[haydenc]

1 I would also like to use tethering, but how many have been held off because of this - probably nobody.

2 Why should Leica bring out adapters for Canon or Nikon, does Mercedes bring out adapters for Volkswagen accessories ? (nonsense, there is no money in this).

4 Of course there will be more lenses and this is the MOST important point. But I am more worried to get the money to pay for all these lenses. (You maybe not). And Leica is probably worried to get buyers for these expensive lenses.

5 We have only one lens and you expect to get an extender next. In most lens systems the extenders came with the big guns, the sport teles. Did you see any such lens anywhere announced ?

 

There are dozens of existing Leica lenses, so I'm glad if they are supported soon in firmware and with adapters. I actually cannot understand the long wait for the adapters.

 

Even if all this is fixed, why should it get a wider audience ? I see only "specialists" like us as customers.

 

Do you know how many people know Canon or Nikon or Sony ? And how few of them have heard of Leica ?

And how many of those few would like to spend money with a company that they probably regard as exotic, maybe even risky, compared to the big players ? And even then, how many of the rest would have the money for the big investment ?

 

So is the SL a success ? Yes, for me personally a clear yes. I am glad that it is available.

The question is probably "Is it a commercial success ?" I think this can only be confirmed after several years with many more lenses and probably also 1 or 2 more models.

 

Stephan

Stephan, you do realize that Leica make adapters for Contax and Hasselblad lenses for the S system.

These adapters retain auto-focus, aperture control etc from the body of the Leica S.

So why would it be so different for Leica to also release adapters for Canon etc for the SL?

I was a Canon shooter for well over 10 years. When I moved to Leica I had to keep my canon stuff as there was no autofocus and no tele lenses that were long enough.

I would have loved a few years back to have been able to make the switch to the SL keep a few Canon lenses.

 

For me the SL is lacking for pro shooters and my list would go a long way to addressing a lot of my concerns, and also would enable me to do more with the SL and less with other cameras.

[wildlightphoto]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

...

 

2 Why should Leica bring out adapters for Canon or Nikon, does Mercedes bring out adapters for Volkswagen accessories ? (nonsense, there is no money in this).

4 Of course there will be more lenses and this is the MOST important point. But I am more worried to get the money to pay for all these lenses. (You maybe not).  And Leica is probably worried to get buyers for these expensive lenses.

 

...

 

 

 

Adapters for CaNikon lenses would go a long way toward resolving the 'more lenses' issue.  Making the camera somehow compatible with the market leaders' lenses makes switching systems much easier and less costly.  Leica used this strategy quite successfully with the S system.

[steppenw0lf]

Hello Haydenc.

 

It sounds maybe a bit strange what I say, but anyway.

 

First, we have a common target, to do most with the SL.

 

I think there is a big difference in "sharpness" or "aggressiveness"  between Hasselblad, Contax and the japanese companies.

Hasselblad and Contax had similar problems as Leica, they were "weak", so Leica could handle this graceful without too much risk.

 

In the business world japanese companies are killers (business is war), so you can never treat them in the same "mild" way. (Sounds strange, but Hasselblad was a sitting duck, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, even Olympus are tigers). I think it is not easy to sell expensive lenses, so with too perfect adapters and many cheap lenses available now, you will likely never have the opportunity to develop and sell your own lenses.

 

I do not know anything about Leicas strategy, but I am sure they have to make every step very carefully. Not like the M where they have a very good name, an almost singular concept and an extraordinarily wide choice of high-quality lenses. 20 years ago I would never have expected that there is so much money in the M, that this wide and luxurious choice of lenses and cameras would ever be possible. The S is a similar wonder, that I cannot explain at all (or just by the failure of other players (Rollei, Hasselblad, Pentax)

 

As I am used to see the world from the perspective of a poor parents' child, I can completely understand that Leica makes only tiny and careful steps.

From the M or S perspective this looks probably ridiculous. I have all the sympathies for your wishes, but do not regard them as anything but dreams.

 

In the last 12 years having Leica equipment (the infamous R mainly) meant for me only to be left in the rain and be beaten up (especially in 2009) for no good reason. "I was not mean to anybody, so why are they so mean to me ?"

For me the SL is also lacking in many areas. But that it exists is an incredible lucky stroke, that I had not expected from Leica.

 

How thin the ice is you can also see with the SL adapter for R-lenses. First there was no such adapter for the T. (strange or not ?) Then this adapter is announced, but no specifics are given, and only in 12 months from the SL announcement, later than any other adapter. Then there is a Novoflex adapter (for the T), but Leica is not using it or outsourcing, if too busy with other stuff. Then a soluition is possible, even much better then expected, with the adapter stack (R-M-L). The Leica developers have certainly known about it. But it is never mentioned in any Leica handbook. Nor is it known in the Leica shops. Demo equipment is available, demo personal instructed, but only for SL and M lenses, R-lenses are still taboo.

So first I was furious and only when looking through the forums I found the info from Jono Slack. He was the first to show how it works and that it works really nicely.

That means Jono Slack is the reason I spent several thousand bucks for Leica equipment. There is something completely wrong here.

 

And on thin ice I have only one wish - to survive. (no other extra wishes).

 

Stephan

[cpclee]

I wonder if the SL->S plus S->Contaxt 645 adapter stack will also work as nicely.  I'd love to mount some Contax 645 lenses on the SL.

[scott kirkpatrick]

........

How thin the ice is you can also see with the SL adapter for R-lenses. First there was no such adapter for the T. (strange or not ?) Then this adapter is announced, but no specifics are given, and only in 12 months from the SL announcement, later than any other adapter. Then there is a Novoflex adapter (for the T), but Leica is not using it or outsourcing, if too busy with other stuff. Then a soluition is possible, even much better then expected, with the adapter stack (R-M-L). The Leica developers have certainly known about it. But it is never mentioned in any Leica handbook. Nor is it known in the Leica shops. Demo equipment is available, demo personal instructed, but only for SL and M lenses, R-lenses are still taboo.

So first I was furious and only when looking through the forums I found the info from Jono Slack. He was the first to show how it works and that it works really nicely.

That means Jono Slack is the reason I spent several thousand bucks for Leica equipment. There is something completely wrong here.

 

Stephan

 

Jono is only the most visible member of an extended Leica users community.  Once the M series added live view capability, the R lenses came back to life and their prices on the used market increased, so somebody is using them.  First several Chinese companies, then Novoflex and finally Leica came out with increasingly accurate and usable (6-bit coded) R to M adapters.  The M to T adapter was readily available at the time of the SL's surprise introduction, and was even offered free as an incentive by some Leica suppliers.  On these forums, I have seen lots of pictures using the R macro lenses and then the R APO telephotos on first the M[240] and now the SL.  Godfrey (ramarren) seems to have spent the Dark Ages accumulating one R lens at almost every focal length, and now shows off their wonders...  You are not alone!

 

scott

[leitztozeiss]

The only M's I miss are my first which was an early production M2, and my last, an M246......Love love love the SL.