Is the SL a succes ?

[peterwinge]

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I was wondering if anybody ( besides Leica of  course) knows if the SL is selling well ??

I am very pleased with the camera myself and I hope they sell a lot of them. If the camera is a succes 

the system will grow with new lenses etc.

 

[cpclee]

As I wrote elsewhere I was told by two or three different Leica stores in my city that the SL is outselling the Ms by a lot.  The SL is new so perhaps this is not unexpected. But one way or another sales are healthy.  

 

Whether the SL will eventually be a bigger selling line than the M will be interesting.  It has a broader and more general appeal than the M but isn't going to remain a unique product on the market for long. The X1 for example sold really well but the X2 and onwards not as well as competing models from rivals came onto the market.  Long run staying power is hard to predict.

 

At one point the R system was a significant (bigger?) seller and was where Leica bet its future when it IPO'ed in the mid-1990s.  But eventually sales dried up as AF totally dominated the market.  The M survived and will probably always live on.

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[Peter H]

I expect that in the absence of a true R replacement there's been quite a lot of pent-up demand for a camera just like the SL and it may take a year or two to find out what it's natural sustainable level is.

 

It will also be interesting to see what the sales of the new M will be like once it becomes available, but there again, the market and technology never stand still so direct comparisons of new cameras are increasingly tricky, though I suppose outright flops are easy enough to spot and the SL shows no signs of being a flop.

[ramarren]

Based on what my three dealer friends have told me, they're selling well, getting a good bit of requests, and wish they could get a few more on the allocations. One of those dealers is here in Silicon Valley, one across the country in Chicago, and the other in Georgia. 

 

Sales will likely pick up when there's more than one native lens available. That seems to be the biggest reason why otherwise interested folks hold back. 

[steppenw0lf]

Here in Europe, demand for the SL is much higher than what is delivered. My favourite shop has still a very long pre-order list.

I have the impression that deliveries are made more to the states (US), because there the SL body seems to be available online.

But matching deliveries and demand is probably very tough if you produce only a limited number of hand-made cameras.

 

Whatever it is, I think it will take several years and half a dozen lenses before we know if it will survive the times. With only one lens (and many users not even buying one) any prediction is completely random.

And it will take even longer before the SL or the L bayonet can match the M bayonet in numbers. (I actually doubt this will ever happen).

 

Does anybody know how the S compares to the M in numbers ?

 

When I think of the very bad reviews at the beginning and the flames of hate in many blogs and forums, I'm glad that the worst debates seem to be over.

 

The next lens (90-280) will be more useful for me (I wonder for how many more ?). So I could imagine that the waiting list will be getting even longer.

Then the long awaited R adapter will follow, hopefully not too expensive.

 

The 50 lux will probably be a very expensive luxury item - and not necessary for me.

 

And then ...

 

But now first comes the first summer of SL - let's see what is hidden in there.

 

Stephan

[haydenc]

The SL is a great camera. 

However there are quite a few things that can make the SL have a much wider audience. 

 

For example

1. Releasing the software so you can capture images tethered

2. While there are virtually no native lenses, release an active adapter so you can use both Canon and Nikon Lenses with Autofocus

3. Fix a lot of the quirks with the firmware. e.g. no evf brightness adjustment, have to use exposure compensation by hitting a button first, both main dials do nothing in A mode with a manual lens etc

4. Release a more substantial road map for native lenses

5. Release native lens extenders 1.4x and 2x

[Peter H]

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My regular dealer told me yesterday afternoon that they have four SLs in stock.

[ramarren]

That's funny. Your dealer has four in stock, unsold, and my dealer has three people on a waiting list, wondering when their cameras will get in. Ah, the joys of distribution systems... ! 

[Peter H]

Indeed. It's not unusual. They get their stock at different times. My dealer has had stock before on more than one occasion, so there's no waiting list anymore.

 

My advice is to get to know a few dealers very well...

[Jeffry Abt]

I think it is a success... Everyday, I'm tempted by it!  But I am waiting for the next "M". 

[jaapv]

As I wrote elsewhere I was told by two or three different Leica stores in my city that the SL is outselling the Ms by a lot.  The SL is new so perhaps this is not unexpected. But one way or another sales are healthy.  

 

Whether the SL will eventually be a bigger selling line than the M will be interesting.  It has a broader and more general appeal than the M but isn't going to remain a unique product on the market for long. The X1 for example sold really well but the X2 and onwards not as well as competing models from rivals came onto the market.  Long run staying power is hard to predict.

 

At one point the R system was a significant (bigger?) seller and was where Leica bet its future when it IPO'ed in the mid-1990s.  But eventually sales dried up as AF totally dominated the market.  The M survived and will probably always live on.

I doubt whether Leica is looking for a repeat of the R saga. In general the system has been a money pit from the SL2 onwards (admittedly with one or two upswings) and a major cause of Leica's near-demise fifteen years ago. Having said that the SL has a more universal appeal, or rather will have when it becomes  a system, provided Leica manages to keep the price somewhat in bounds.

[AlanJW]

I think it is a success... Everyday, I'm tempted by it!  But I am waiting for the next "M". 

I am waiting for the next M too.  But in the meanwhile I am immensely enjoying the SL.

[earleygallery]

I was talking to a well known dealer just the other day and apparently the best sellers currently are the Q and then the SL.

 

The real measure of success though will be if the camera and system continues to sell well into next year and the year after that, and the year after that.........

[maxofrome]

I am bit surprise about the success of the SL (taking into account the meaning of success for Leica in term of numbers). I have spent 3 days with it and shoot one full day in studio and yes is a pretty camera but personally does not hit me as did the M9 many years ago. Is a fine camera but not so unique and as usual very pricy.  But its success is good for Leica and will probably benefit other Leica's camera type.

[Jeff S]

Depends of course on how Leica defines success...internally and compared to the market (however they define).

 

Quality control needs to be a consideration going forward...no big stumbles.  The S system, at an even higher price point, seems to have had its share of discouraging stories (at least suggested by various forum threads).  Even E. Puts has written (and apparently since deleted from his site) that Leica's customers often seem more like beta-testers these days.  With relatively high price points, and given the quickly changing digital marketplace, companies cannot afford major hiccups, especially with new products/target audiences.

 

I'm a reluctant 'early adopter' for electronics in general, and I imagine there are others waiting not just for new lenses, but waiting to see how stable the product line is.  

 

Jeff

Edited March 9, 2016 by Jeff S

[Peter H]

...........................

 

I'm reluctant to be an 'early adopter' for electronics in general, and I imagine there are others waiting not just for new lenses, but waiting to see how stable the product line is.  

 

Jeff

 

 

And also, according to the dealer who has 4 SLs in stock (as of yesterday), a good number of people are waiting to see what the new M will offer before making their choice. 

 

This gave me another opportunity to moan about Leica's lack of openness with their customers about their products. I am getting increasingly tired of Leica's attitude. The price at which we buy into this premium line of products deserves, I think, I more honest and less cloak-and-dagger, "isn't it fun to be teased" approach that might enable us to plan more sensibly what our next purchases might be. 

[steppenw0lf]

The SL is a great camera. 

However there are quite a few things that can make the SL have a much wider audience. 

 

For example

1. Releasing the software so you can capture images tethered

2. While there are virtually no native lenses, release an active adapter so you can use both Canon and Nikon Lenses with Autofocus

3. Fix a lot of the quirks with the firmware. e.g. no evf brightness adjustment, have to use exposure compensation by hitting a button first, both main dials do nothing in A mode with a manual lens etc

4. Release a more substantial road map for native lenses

5. Release native lens extenders 1.4x and 2x

 

 

1 I would also like to use tethering, but how many have been held off because of this - probably nobody.

2 Why should Leica bring out adapters for Canon or Nikon, does Mercedes bring out adapters for Volkswagen accessories ? (nonsense, there is no money in this).

4 Of course there will be more lenses and this is the MOST important point. But I am more worried to get the money to pay for all these lenses. (You maybe not).  And Leica is probably worried to get buyers for these expensive lenses.

5 We have only one lens and you expect to get an extender next. In most lens systems the extenders came with the big guns, the sport teles. Did you see any such lens anywhere announced ?

 

There are dozens of existing Leica lenses, so I'm glad if they are supported soon in firmware and with adapters. I actually cannot understand the long wait for the adapters.

 

Even if all this is fixed, why should it get a wider audience ? I see only "specialists" like us as customers.

 

Do you know how many people know Canon or Nikon or Sony ? And how few of them have heard of Leica ?

And how many of those few would like to spend money with a company that they probably regard as exotic, maybe even risky, compared to the big players ? And even then, how many of the rest would have the money for the big investment ?

 

So is the SL a success ? Yes, for me personally a clear yes. I am glad that it is available.

The question is probably "Is it a commercial success ?"  I think this can only be confirmed after several years with many more lenses and probably also 1 or 2 more models.

 

Stephan

Edited March 9, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[steppenw0lf]

And also, according to the dealer who has 4 SLs in stock (as of yesterday), a good number of people are waiting to see what the new M will offer before making their choice. 

 

Hi,

 

I just wonder: Is this dealer in the states ? Here in Europe we are still waiting for the cameras (typically since several months).

 

And regarding early adopters: Most of the buyers had already M and/or R lenses, some also T cameras.

So are they early adopters ? I would not call it so. (not in the very strict sense).

I have in the last 30 years spent a multiple of the SL price for lenses (mainly) and cameras from Leica. So this is for me just a "completion" of a long-time unfinished project.

I have the impression that there are very few buyers who got the SL as their first Leica camera. At least I do not know of anybody, do you ?

 

Stephan

[Peter H]

Hi,

 

I just wonder: Is this dealer in the states ? Here in Europe we are still waiting for the cameras (typically since several months).

 

............................

 

 

No, this is a main dealer in the UK.

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[Guest]

1 I would also like to use tethering, but how many have been held off because of this - probably nobody.

2 Why should Leica bring out adapters for Canon or Nikon, does Mercedes bring out adapters for Volkswagen accessories ? (nonsense, there is no money in this).

 

Are you saying Leica is a Benz compared to Nikon/Canon VW?  Yah, right, whatever ...

 

4 Of course there will be more lenses and this is the MOST important point. But I am more worried to get the money to pay for all these lenses. (You maybe not).  And Leica is probably worried to get buyers for these expensive lenses.

5 We have only one lens and you expect to get an extender next. In most lens systems the extenders came with the big guns, the sport teles. Did you see any such lens anywhere announced ?

 

There are dozens of existing Leica lenses, so I'm glad if they are supported soon in firmware and with adapters. I actually cannot understand the long wait for the adapters.

 

Even if all this is fixed, why should it get a wider audience ? I see only "specialists" like us as customers.

 

Do you know how many people know Canon or Nikon or Sony ? And how few of them have heard of Leica ?

And how many of those few would like to spend money with a company that they probably regard as exotic, maybe even risky, compared to the big players ? And even then, how many of the rest would have the money for the big investment ?

 

So is the SL a success ? Yes, for me personally a clear yes. I am glad that it is available.

The question is probably "Is it a commercial success ?"  I think this can only be confirmed after several years with many more lenses and probably also 1 or 2 more models.

 

Stephan