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What's the difference between the " old " macro 90mm and the new one?


Paulus

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No, they are quite different in construction. The goggled adaptor is essentially a simple extension tube (albeit with a clever pass-through focussing cam mechanism) whereas the newer adaptor has an integral helicoid extension (and no RF cam). The helicoid can be used to focus the lens (in the collapsed position for infinity or extended for closer macro capability).

 

Incidentally, as far as I can see, the goggles cannot be easily removed from the old adaptor.

 

I removed the goggles on mine readily. When put cack together the screw holes cover right up too.

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Ok, fair enough. Presumably you first have to remove the flange?

 

Yes.

 

If you decide to remove the eyes note that I put the screws from the eye bracket back in the holes beneath the flange. When you put the flange back on it covers the screws and holds them in place. Much easier than losing them.  :)

Edited by jdlaing
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Would you mind to share your findings here? I plan to buy a new adapter for my old 90/4 macro as well.

 

Sorry for the delay, it took USPS 48 hours to get my lens the 6 miles from Brooklyn to my place on Manhattan ( posted 1 day priority mail).

 

Ok, so I will reconfirm tomorrow in the light, but it seems that the old lens does indeed focus at infinity when retracted on the new adapter. It's a real pleasure to use actually, with three stages of magnification. 

 

It is impossible to set the aperture without pulling the lens out at least a bit as the aperture ring is just too hard to get to. So you have to pull the lens forward, set it, then put it back.  Whether or not this is an issue depends on how much you need to play with your aperture I guess. Personally I'm very happy to live with this for the $2k I saved vs a new lens, and if I'm reading correctly that the hood is not reversible on the new lens then I'd rather have the old one even if the price was the same. The hood is very nearly as long as the lens and it wouldn't fit in my back any other way than reversed. Seems like the lens would loose much of its size advantage. 

 

On a side note, while its had to judge by a grainy, handheld ISO 2000 shot of the back of a kids story book in terrible light, but WOW this lens seems sharp!!

Edited by ralphh
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Thank you ralphh. When you say the aperture ring is hard to get you mean when the lens is retracted on the adapter i guess. When the lens is not retracted, do you feel that the close focus engravings are accurate?

 

 

Yep, only when it's retracted. The new one is designed so that you can use the aperture ring in either positions. 

 

I didnt look at the engravings - in the new ring the lens mounts the right way up so they're pretty much unusable.  I hadn't considered that I'd want to use them - live view beats tape measures and distance markings in my book :) but if they're important to you For DoF, the old adapter might be a better bet.

Edited by ralphh
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Sorry for the delay, it took USPS 48 hours to get my lens the 6 miles from Brooklyn to my place on Manhattan ( posted 1 day priority mail).

 

Ok, so I will reconfirm tomorrow in the light, but it seems that the old lens does indeed focus at infinity when retracted on the new adapter. It's a real pleasure to use actually, with three stages of magnification. 

 

It is impossible to set the aperture without pulling the lens out at least a bit as the aperture ring is just too hard to get to. So you have to pull the lens forward, set it, then put it back.  Whether or not this is an issue depends on how much you need to play with your aperture I guess. Personally I'm very happy to live with this for the $2k I saved vs a new lens, and if I'm reading correctly that the hood is not reversible on the new lens then I'd rather have the old one even if the price was the same. The hood is very nearly as long as the lens and it wouldn't fit in my back any other way than reversed. Seems like the lens would loose much of its size advantage. 

 

On a side note, while its had to judge by a grainy, handheld ISO 2000 shot of the back of a kids story book in terrible light, but WOW this lens seems sharp!!

Hi ralphh, since you can't lock down the barrel in retracted position (all the way in), does it cause any issue with focusing (with new adapter) due to wobble? My lens barrel slides out very easily and has little bit of wobble if extended partially. 

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Hi ralphh, since you can't lock down the barrel in retracted position (all the way in), does it cause any issue with focusing (with new adapter) due to wobble? My lens barrel slides out very easily and has little bit of wobble if extended partially. 

 

Hi jmahto it seems fine to me.  I even tried putting the hood on, pointing it straight down and shaking it a little :)  Mine doesn't extend under gravity at all.  Even if yours does, the times you need infinity focus with the camera pointed straight down must be pretty limited...

 

It doesn't seem wobbly at all when retracted.  

 

Remember there is no range finder coupling, so you MUST focus view liveview with the adapter in place (zone focusing a 90mm seems like asking for trouble!), so you should never have any nasty surprises with focus.

 

Also, I've just tried again in daylight and it seems to focus perfectly at infinity with the lens and adapter retracted. 

Edited by ralphh
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  • 2 years later...

...

 When used with the Macro-Adapter-M (14409), the original Macro-Elmar-M 90mm (M-E-M) is rotated by 180 degrees.

The lens then has its own control cam for the macro range.

 

The given helical motion must be mapped to the range 0.55m... 0,76m.

The gradient of the control curve is noticeably flatter/finer with macros than in the far range.

The original 1st M-E-M has two different control curves!

...

...

The goggles were saved with the new 2nd Macro Set.  Whether the second special control curve is still available I do not know.

 

Greeting Thorsten ...  with #60 & #61

 

 

Additional question:

 

Does the new lens (11670) work rangefinder coupled with the earlier original Macro-Adapter-M (14409) ?

 

Thorsten

Edited by Dao De Leitz
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Good decision, that way you get the best of both worlds and can do macro on a film body later if you so desire.

The old ones are still available new I’m pretty sure...

 

First post, so hi all!

 

I just ordered the old version of the lens second hand on ebay and bought the new version of the adapter ring. Looking at the extensions of both lenses, they seem the same, so I believe the old lens will be compatible with the new adapter. The only pain will be setting the aperture when focused at infinity with the new adapter.

 

I paid $1400 so quite a bit less than half price vs the new version from B&H - seemed too good of a bargain to pass up.

 

Will update back here when I get the lens, and hopefully confirm that there is no need to buy the new version :)

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Good decision, that way you get the best of both worlds and can do macro on a film body later if you so desire.

 

 

The 90 Macro-Elmar will only do "Macro" on a film body with the Goggled adaptor. The poster (Ralphh) that you are responding to has the newer adaptor which lacks any RF coupling and is just an adjustable extension tube.

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Additional question:

 

Does the new lens (11670) work rangefinder coupled with the earlier original Macro-Adapter-M (14409) ?

 

That's a good question. In an earlier reply I have suggested that it would work RF coupled but I hadn't considered that the shape of the focussing cam at the rear of the lens may differ between the two versions. The focus throw is very short so when the lens is turned upside down, the part of the cam engaging the mechanism in the Goggled adaptor is different from that which engages the RF mechanism inside the camera lens mount. The new version, if it is assumed that it will not be used with the Goggled adaptor, may lack the correctly shaped cam for the "upside down" position. I think the only way to be sure is to compare the two lenses directly and/or contact Leica for an authoritative answer.

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  • 5 years later...
On 2/6/2016 at 5:28 PM, Jared said:

As Microview stated, the difference is whether the lens is intended for use with liveview cameras or rangefinder cameras.  Optically they are identical.

 

Old Lens with kit:

* When the body is collapsed, the front of the lens is free to rotate

* The macro adapter includes goggles for use with a rangefinder--corrects for parallax so you can see the appropriate field of view at close focus

* The macro adapter is fixed in length

* The lens goes on the macro adapter upside down so that a different distance scale is visible on the lens for close focus

* Works fine with liveview, but the goggles can look a little silly when mounted on, for example, an SL rather than an M

* Includes a right angle prism to allow easy composition with an M camera when shooting at low angles

* Reaches 1:3 magnification (not quite the generally accepted "true" macro value of 1:2)

 

New Lens and new macro adapter:

* When the lens body is collapsed, the front element can lock in place.  This will allow you to set the f/stop more easily with the lens collapsed--I'll explain why that's useful in a second

* No goggles, so nearly impossible to use on an M9, M8, or film M camera

* I believe (but I could be wrong) that the lens mounts right side up and there is no rangefinder coupling or close focus distance scale

* Optically identical to the previous generation lens

* The macro adapter itself, since it is intended for use with liveview for composition and has no rangefinder coupling, works with ANY Leica M lens, though with varying quality results and possibly weird perspective at shorter focal lengths

* The macro adapter telescopes slightly, allowing the 90mm to reach 1:2 magnification, generally considered a "true" macro level, though some purists would say 1:1 is required

* Since there are no goggles, you can leave the macro adapter on the camera body and reach infinity focus with the 90mm by leaving the lens collapsed.  Again, more useful for a liveview camera since I don't think the rangefinder works in this configuration (though I could be wrong and would be happy to be corrected).  This is why it's nice to have the aperture ring lock in the collapsed position.  Then, when you want macro you just extend the lens for closer focus

 

Personally, I would consider the older version the more flexible of the two approaches since it will work using either liveview or the rangefinder.  Only real down side to the older approach is that the goggles will look funny if you are using this setup on an SL or possibly on future generations of M cameras if they eventually adopt an EVF--highly debatable, of course.  In any event, the results should be identical between the two.  Oh, it's also possible they have upgraded the coatings on the newer version of the lens which might make it a little more flare resistant.  This wasn't mentioned in any of the marketing literature when the new macro was released, but Leica sometimes does this in the background without any press release.

 

- Jared

Thanks Jared, and everyone else. I'm bringing this thread back from the dead. 
I just got a nice and mint silver version 1. Is it my lens or do all version 1 90 Macro Elmars have trouble physically turning the aperture ring (it goes round and round) when the lens is at its smallest (retracted) .
Thank you all and welcome to 2023 🙂
Mark

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Being the first version of the Macro-Elmar 90/4 (black 11633 or silver 11634, on the left below), when the "tube" is retracted it is not locked and tends to turn freely together with the aperture ring. Also it is difficult to turn the aperture ring otherwise than with the nails then. Better extend the lens to begin with, lock the tube in extended position, set the aperture, unlock the tube and retract it afterwards. Hope this helps.

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Edited by lct
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11 hours ago, lct said:

Being the first version of the Macro-Elmar 90/4 (black 11633 or silver 11634, on the left below), when the "tube" is retracted it is not locked and tends to turn freely together with the aperture ring. Also it is difficult to turn the aperture ring otherwise than with the nails then. Better extend the lens to begin with, lock the tube in extended position, set the aperture, unlock the tube and retract it afterwards. Hope this helps.

Thank you! One more thing, if I may, when the lens is in retracted (small and tight) formation, if it is turned downward should it creep (turn to the longer position) by itself ?

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34 minutes ago, tappan said:

Thank you! One more thing, if I may, when the lens is in retracted (small and tight) formation, if it is turned downward should it creep (turn to the longer position) by itself ?

By itself no but if you shake the camera when it is turned downward it may happen.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/18/2023 at 9:40 PM, lct said:

Being the first version of the Macro-Elmar 90/4 (black 11633 or silver 11634, on the left below), when the "tube" is retracted it is not locked and tends to turn freely together with the aperture ring. Also it is difficult to turn the aperture ring otherwise than with the nails then. Better extend the lens to begin with, lock the tube in extended position, set the aperture, unlock the tube and retract it afterwards. Hope this helps.

Hello again and thanks for all your help regarding this lens.
Will the version one lens work in the retracted (closed) position without the macro adapter (newer adapter or older adapter) in the 90mm position (for a portrait not for macro)?
Thank you,
Mark

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On 10/13/2023 at 11:24 PM, tappan said:

Hello again and thanks for all your help regarding this lens.
Will the version one lens work in the retracted (closed) position without the macro adapter (newer adapter or older adapter) in the 90mm position (for a portrait not for macro)?
Thank you,
Mark

Not sure what you mean by 90mm position, being a 90mm lens, but i never tried this so far. I suspect you would get a blurred portrait.

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