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Special cameras coming down in price - the temptation


enboe
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I never understand the need to comment publicly on how others like to spend their hard earned money. So what if I both love to take photos and have a special edition camera because it looks good in my display case? I am not a wealthy individual but that doesn't mean I can't save and buy the Leica MP Safari kit and enjoy that purchase immensely. 

 

Which is why I did and I do.

 

 

I got the impression this thread was referring to cameras like the  M9 Hermes old technology at a collectible price .......Do these old cameras really have collectible value?  

 
I don't think the Safari was priced as a collectible if I'm not mistaken camera and lens were priced cheaper than if purchased separately ?
 
And you are correct it's none of our business ....but since its on the table. 
Would you have paid $1500 more for that cool green color and that great lens hood?
Could you see yourself paying 25K for the Lenny Kravitz ?...and shooting with it?
If you put Lenny on a shelf in 20 years would that old camera technology be a good investment?
 
Just wondering and before you say it....Yep, I have too much time on my hands;-)  
And it is none of my business
 
 
Enjoy your camera its a very cool and useful tool.
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Ok I promise last post on this but I couldn't resist.

 

Panda Edition MP, 35mm1.4, cool lens hood .........30 units made .........$14,000

 

So...... Who's the market? ....Will they use them? ....Will they put them away as an investment?   Will they be a good investment?

 

http://petapixel.com/2016/01/26/leica-just-unveiled-a-panda-edition-m-p-for-chinese-photographers/

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All I meant was that film cameras are old technology and that we live in a digital world.

 

 

The statement "We live in a Digital World" is a phrase that largely comes from the tech heads who can't see past their pushing of technology down people's throats. Their goal is to keep selling people down the digital river so of course they spread that phrase around like technology is more important than food, sleep, love, etc.

 

If you get out into the real world, the one made of organic compounds, biology, ecology and climatology, one finds it is not at all a so called "Digital World". It's a real world out there with people who insist on having balance in their lives so a steady number of people young and old decide to use film either alone or in tandem with digital cameras to achieve a healthy balance of creative tools for their vision. 

 

Film is not "antique" technology either, it does not require some form of witches brew or a voodoo doll to view, print or publish. And film is not "gone".  Aside from a very healthy niche following by enthusiasts, you might be surprised to know how many professionals have added some form of film use back into the mix because it changes up the workflow and the equipment can be quite reasonable although the really good stuff is starting to climb back up. There are weddings, portraits, advertising, editorial and documentary shoots all being done on film every day. And when the work is viewed or published and the photographer has done well, instead of being seen as "antique", it is personal, rich, engaging and even tactile.

 

I say all this because I get a feel from your posts that you say what you do about film because that is what you want to believe. But the truth is out there...and the truth is film is now a great niche that partners well with any digital technology when it comes to achieving creative balance in life.

Edited by Ai_Print
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The statement "We live in a Digital World" is a phrase that largely comes from the tech heads who can't see past their pushing of technology down people's throats. Their goal is to keep selling people down the digital river so of course they spread that phrase around like technology is more important than food, sleep, love, etc.

 

If you get out into the real world, the one made of organic compounds, biology, ecology and climatology, one finds it is not at all a so called "Digital World". It's a real world out there with people who insist on having balance in their lives so a steady number of people young and old decide to use film either alone or in tandem with digital cameras to achieve a healthy balance of creative tools for their vision. 

 

Film is not "antique" technology either, it does not require some form of witches brew or a voodoo doll to view, print or publish. And film is not "gone".  Aside from a very healthy niche following by enthusiasts, you might be surprised to know how many professionals have added some form of film use back into the mix because it changes up the workflow and the equipment can be quite reasonable although the really good stuff is starting to climb back up. There are weddings, portraits, advertising, editorial and documentary shoots all being done on film every day. And when the work is viewed or published and the photographer has done well, instead of being seen as "antique", it is personal, rich, engaging and even tactile.

 

I say all this because I get a feel from your posts that you say what you do about film because that is what you want to believe. But the truth is out there...and the truth is film is now a great niche that partners well with any digital technology when it comes to achieving creative balance in life.

 

 

 

I come from a film background ...I worked as an Advertising Photographer shooting film then digital  I watched the industry and the world change. We live in a digital world not because I want to but because it is currently in every part of our everyday lives.

Try to get a job as a young person without knowledge of a computer. Try meeting today's advertising deadlines while shooting film. Look at printing or the newspaper industry. We live in a digital world . Does your doctor or dentist still shoot film?  

I could go on and on pointing out examples of the digital world we live in. Not because I want it to be that way but because it is....Just look around, to deny it is like saying "I'll  bring back the buggy whip and I'll make a fortune ". 

 
Silver printing and film will sooner or later be an antique process, replaced by digital, it is the future. I know........ People still cane chairs but it's an antique process.
Silver Printing will go by the wayside of the daguerreotype the tintype and albumin prints. And one day digital photography will be replace by something else.
 
Another important thing that should be said....I have this opinion not because I'm a tech geek or want it to be true. Honestly I don't.....a tech geek...that's funny, I don't even own a cell phone ......I gave it up when I retired.
Most of my life is not digital. The craft of photography is ever changing I for one love it and want to keep learning that craft ....and currently in photography...its a digital world.
 
You can live at life any pace you want but you can't deny the invention of the computer for better or worse........ we may as well make the best of it....the genie is out of the bottle
 
"technology is more important than food, sleep, love, etc." ..............of course not ...but that has nothing to do with digital photography or film
 
Also I think you know that I'm not talking about or denying organic chemistry so take that off the table thats way off the point
Edited by ECohen
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I come from a film background ...I worked as an Advertising Photographer shooting film then digital  I watched the industry and the world change. We live in a digital world not because I want to but because it is currently in every part of our everyday lives. Try to get a job as a young person without knowledge of a computer. Try meeting today's advertising deadlines while shooting film. Look at printing or the newspaper industry. We live in a digital world . Does your doctor or dentist still shoot film?  I could go on and on pointing out examples of the digital world we live in. Not because I want it to be that way but because it is....Just look around, to deny it is like saying "I'll be we can bring back the buggy whip ". 

 
Silver printing and film will sooner or later be an antique process replaced by digital, it is the future.
It will go by the wayside of the daguerreotype the tintype and albumin prints. And one day digital photography will be replace by something else.
 
Another important thing that should be said....I have this opinion not because I'm a tech geek or want it to be true because honestly I don't.....a tech geek...that's funny, I don't think so.
I don't even own a cell phone ......I gave it up when I retired.
 
You can live in any pace world you want but you can't deny the invention of the computer for better or worse.........I think its for the worse but we may as well make the best of it. 
 
"technology is more important than food, sleep, love, etc." ..............no it isn't but the   Jeannie is all the way out of the bottle

 

 

 

OK, well, those are your beliefs based on your experiences and other things that are unique to you. Not every one shares those views, especially with regards to silver printing being replaced by digital because it is the future. I have been a full time professional photographer for nearly 30 years, I am in my late 40's. I am also on the advisory committee of a very well known photo program and all of us, young and old, see things differently than you do. I use both mediums for the strengths I see in them, not what anyone tells me is better or the "future". 

 

I'm in control of my future and how much computer this or that I use on a daily basis.

 

So cheer up, it is not as bad as you make it out to be. 

Edited by Ai_Print
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Nearly extinct.

 

Just look at the sales figures for film cameras versus digital cameras.

 

Nearly extinct? Not according to more and more positive press on why people are using film, there are plenty of people on this site who will point you in that direction but I strongly doubt you are "really" interesting in hearing it.

 

Also, considering the vast majority of film camera sales are now used in the used market, what sales figures are you talking about?

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I'm in control of my future and how much computer this or that I use on a daily basis.

 

By the time your 70, film will be gone. Or you'll be coating your own plates, either way its and antique process.

 

​Look at the sales look at the variety of film and paper compared to 15 years ago.

 

Of course its still viable process but that's not the point.  We live in a digital world  

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I'm in control of my future and how much computer this or that I use on a daily basis.

 

By the time your 70, film will be gone. Or you'll be coating your own plates, either way its and antique process.

 

​Look at the sales look at the variety of film and paper compared to 15 years ago.

 

Of course its still viable process but that's not the point.  We live in a digital world  

 

 I don't agree with you but you just keep right on believing what you want to believe, I will keep living my life the way I see fit. 

 

I'll let someone else play in the sandbox with you, I'm done.

Edited by Ai_Print
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Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Pardon if I overstep my bounds, but may I request we return the thread to the original topic, great cameras are becoming more affordable!  I keep looking at, and holding off on, picking up one of the now-less-expensive M60's or Safari M-P240's.  Oh why can't the old Noctilux 1.2's drop 35-50%?!

 

Eric

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Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Pardon if I overstep my bounds, but may I request we return the thread to the original topic, great cameras are becoming more affordable!  I keep looking at, and holding off on, picking up one of the now-less-expensive M60's or Safari M-P240's.  Oh why can't the old Noctilux 1.2's drop 35-50%?!

 

Eric

 

 

Please forgive me I didn't meant to hijack this conversation.

 
 
Wait till Leica comes out with a new 240 and you'll be able to get that Safari kit for a song. The longer you wait the cheaper last years cameras will be. 
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Film is really making a comeback right now. There is a big movement gaining momentum for the past year at least. More and more it's being used even commercially, the latest Calvin Klein campaign was shot on film. It's happening for more reasons than just aesthetic too - photographers are taking back their art and their craft. They are rejecting the process of 20 people huddled around a monitor shouting their opinions over each other. They are rejecting retouching and photoshop and printing their own work in the darkroom again. It's coming back to photography and the photographer, getting things right in camera and creating something real and special. Who know's how far it will go. I really believe with the tech we have today someone could create a desktop developer that was simple as: drop in film, drop in chemical pods, and press a button. This would make it a viable alternative.

 

as for Ltd Editions, well it depends on which ones you are looking at - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-Leitz-M7-Titanium-Big-3-Lens-Set-Box-Ultra-Rare-/131687543052?hash=item1ea930710c:g:USsAAOSwNyFWcXXP - £140K! The dream kit for me.

Edited by Paul J
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It's hard hard to say, it is still in that fashion and trend phase at the moment, but I do see a definite shift in the reason behind it - photographers taking back photography, craft/art. But what is encouraging is, it is the younger generation coming through that are running with it and they have become quite influential. It also, obviously, just has an inherent beauty in it's look too that we've pretty much grown up with and become accustomed to. Digital just looks plastic in comparison. There needs to be some R+D in the development process itself I think but given that Kodak have just issued all their staff with business cards made out of film (yes, really!) it shows there is a resurgence and a push. But I really think the catalyst will be in ease of self development - a simple to use desktop device that is akin to the nespresso of the coffee machine world. If you can take out the pain, hassle and time expense of lab visits then it will really gain far more momentum. Personally, I hope so. I prefer film for what it is and for what it represents and would love to be printing in the darkroom, working on something truly unique, special, and one-off, rather than sat in front of a computer.

Edited by Paul J
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I don't know many examples of people abandoning an old technology completely because it's been replaced by a new one. People still make sourdough bread, throw clay pots, ride horses etc. Film will never go away, it will just become more specialised.

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I've been using a community darkroom for several years now and I noticed that within the last year and a half there are more people in the darkroom, lots of new faces.  I've also noticed that their darkroom orientation classes, which is required to be completed before working in the darkroom, are always full and they have been adding classes.  Based on my observations, I'd have to agree with Paul J's comments that film is experiencing renewed interest.  IMO, the release of Leica's M-A reasserts the idea that film isn't going away anytime soon

 

In terms of special additions I'd be more inclined to purchase a analogue special addition vs. a digital one, if I could afford either.  My MP has held it's value while my MM(v1) has depreciated (but that was expected). 

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It may sound like I'm against the wonderful  Silver Print process. Please know that I'm not. As time marches on the Silver Print Process will be used by a very very small group of artists. 

Currently there are still many photographers shooting film more than enough to merit the cost of producing the materials needed for the process. Sooner or later these artists or a rich hobbyist  will have to bond together to purchase a company to continue the manufacture of film and paper.
 
The pool is getting smaller with every passing year....sad but true.
 
Anybody notice that LP's and turntables are making a come back too ? You think they will be around or main stream in  the coming years?
I've also wondered who will go into the profession of keeping these old cameras working? What kid says when I grow up I want to fix old cameras to keep the dream alive....on a world wide scale?
 
The fashion advertising industry using film is a fad. Does anyone really  think the fashion industry would ever abandon the greatest  tool ever invented to con people into spending money on things they don't need RETOUCHING it is here to stay especially in advertising
 
My initial comments pertaining to this topic's thread was that digital cameras don't hold their value. And that's why Leica's new/digital SE are coming down it price 
 
Someone needs to start a new thread for this current topic. "Is film here to stay"
 I for one would like to see where that thread it goes
 
Has anyone ever polled this forum to see who shoots film /digital/or both?
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It's an amazing time to be a photo enthusiast or a photographer, there is no more doubt, no more which is better, no more reason to pick apart the technical aspects of the mediums we can choose to use.

 

So make photographs, not incite battles to re-start a war that was over years ago. 

Edited by Ai_Print
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I hope my modest work is not rejected because it is all film, printed on paper.

My images are from paper scans on an old scanner. I just suck with migrating

prints to digital. I am, however learning to appreciate digital color, but will not

likely do much more of it.

 

But when it matters for personal reasons, I shoot digital color like this:

http://www.digoliardi.net/ashes2.jpg

 

My mother's great grand daughter spreading Mom's ashes in the Pike's

Peak area of Colorado as Mother wished.

Edited by pico
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