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Inaccurate Focusing M Lenses on the SL


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I have owned a Leica camera since the introduction of the M9, and since then, each and every iteration of the M series, excluding limited editions.  In late October, I purchased the SL, along with the Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90.  

 

Initially, I shot solely with the Vario-Elmarit on the SL, but I soon got the urge to try my assortment of M lenses, and so I purchased the Leica M-Adapter T, and began using primarily the 50 Lux and the 90 Cron, on the SL.  Although I have become fairly adept at rangefinder focusing, the EVF focusing experience with the SL was truly amazing.  Focus magnification and focus peaking made focusing with the M lenses, especially the longer lenses, quick, easy, and accurate - or so I thought.

 

While shooting with the SL/Ms, it seemed that I was hitting focus with amazing consistency, that is until l reviewed them on the LCD and zoomed in to check focus.  It was just not right.  Same thing when I viewed them in Lightroom - very much out of focus.  Therefore, I started questioning my shooting skills, but knowing that as a left-eye shooter I am pretty good at shooting hand-held, I felt that something else was wrong.  So, last night, I set up a quick test using the same two lenses, the 50 Lux and the 90 Cron, on the SL and M240.  I stood an open book on my dining table, and then, in turn, shot with the SL and M240 rested on the table top.  My suspicions were confirmed: focus is way off with both adapted M lenses on the SL, while spot on with the M240.  I did not take the time to determine if the SL is back- or front-focusing, but it is definitely not focusing as indicated in the EVF.  I called B&H, and they offered a replacement without explanation, even though I am considerably beyond the 30-day exchange period.

 

Is it the camera, or the adapter?  Soon to be determined.  Is mine an isolated case, or has anyone else experienced this issue?  

 

 

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I have owned a Leica camera since the introduction of the M9, and since then, each and every iteration of the M series, excluding limited editions.  In late October, I purchased the SL, along with the Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90.  

 

Initially, I shot solely with the Vario-Elmarit on the SL, but I soon got the urge to try my assortment of M lenses, and so I purchased the Leica M-Adapter T, and began using primarily the 50 Lux and the 90 Cron, on the SL.  Although I have become fairly adept at rangefinder focusing, the EVF focusing experience with the SL was truly amazing.  Focus magnification and focus peaking made focusing with the M lenses, especially the longer lenses, quick, easy, and accurate - or so I thought.

 

While shooting with the SL/Ms, it seemed that I was hitting focus with amazing consistency, that is until l reviewed them on the LCD and zoomed in to check focus.  It was just not right.  Same thing when I viewed them in Lightroom - very much out of focus.  Therefore, I started questioning my shooting skills, but knowing that as a left-eye shooter I am pretty good at shooting hand-held, I felt that something else was wrong.  So, last night, I set up a quick test using the same two lenses, the 50 Lux and the 90 Cron, on the SL and M240.  I stood an open book on my dining table, and then, in turn, shot with the SL and M240 rested on the table top.  My suspicions were confirmed: focus is way off with both adapted M lenses on the SL, while spot on with the M240.  I did not take the time to determine if the SL is back- or front-focusing, but it is definitely not focusing as indicated in the EVF.  I called B&H, and they offered a replacement without explanation, even though I am considerably beyond the 30-day exchange period.

 

Is it the camera, or the adapter?  Soon to be determined.  Is mine an isolated case, or has anyone else experienced this issue?  

Are you shooting Raw (DNG) only? If this is the case the problem is just in the low resolution of the embedded jpeg used to review on the camera LCD. Change to DNG+JPEG and everything will be fine.

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I am getting extremely sharp images with the M + SL combo...seems odd that they are in focus in your EVF yet the files are soft, or am I misunderstanding?

If they are sharp in the EVF then the final image should also be sharp...at least thats my experience.

 

What is you shutter speed?

can you post an example image?

 

I found images were soft when shooting 1/50th and slower...I assume from shutter shake. Once I started shooting over 1/100th images look amazing. Honestly I find my success rate of critical focus is far higher with SL vs M

 

 


Are you shooting Raw (DNG) only? If this is the case the problem is just in the low resolution of the embedded jpeg used to review on the camera LCD. Change to DNG+JPEG and everything will be fine.

 

He stated that the files are also soft.

Edited by digitalfx
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As others have said (or implied), when using an EVF/live-vew, you are focusing with the imaging sensor itself. Not like using a "proxy" focus system such as a separate SLR screen, or rangefinder.

 

Your image sensor cannot be "misaligned" with itself.

 

However, focus peaking can be - approximate. Especially if used at apertures other than wide open. It is a proxy system (it assumes edge contrast = sharpness, which can be fooled by subject contrasts).

 

By using a tabletop, you appear to have eliminated the most obvious other sources of blur - motion blur at longer shutter times, or wavering/leaning back and forth a bit between focusing and pressing the button, and the shutter opening.

 

Can you go into more detail of your technique? Do you place the camera on the table in final position, and then focus? Do you make any change - however slight - to the camera position between focusing and pressing the shutter button? Recompose slightly?

 

The focus ring of the 90, or the tab on the 50 (assuming ASPH) could "roll" or move slightly if you shift the camera sideways even a little, and they are in contact with the tabletop.

 

EDIT - I guess you could have a "loose" image sensor, that jumps a bit with the vibration of the shutter, changing the focus plane. Anything sound loose, with a gentle shake in the forward/back direction?

 

(My car was making "thumps" under acceleration/deceleration, and the mechanic found that the bolts attaching the subframe, that carries front wheels and engine, to the rest of the car, were loose, and needed tightening!)

Edited by adan
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Inexplicable.

 

Live-view magnified focus and peaking do not lie, whether EVF or LCD. 

 

EDIT.

I didn't read the OP's full comment about his table top test. This makes no sense at all. If its in focus in the EVF, the image must be in focus.

 

The OP needs to post more data and sample images.

Edited by digitalfx
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I'm very impressed with B&H -and, by implication, Leica. Their policy is obviously "never argue with the customer", even in a case like this which can hardly  be anything but user error.

 

jaapv:

 

I have always been impressed with B&H, and I have never abused, nor taken unfair advantage of, their generous return policies.  However, it is a bit of a stretch, and an unfounded assumption on your part, to say that this problem is an issue of user error.  I know how to use a camera, and I also know when something is not right, and something is definitely not right with this camera or with the adapter.

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MORE INFORMATION IS NEEDED.

 

Which adapter?

Shutter Speed?

sample image?

 

 

I have to say thats its hard to understand how the image is sharp in the EVF yet not in the file.

 

 

Yes, it is hard for me to understand, as well.

 

Adapter: Leica Adapter-M T

 

Shutter Speed: Adequate, but I will have to look back at exif.  All shots with each camera were taken with each lens wide open, with the cameras stabilized on the table top.  If stabilization was the issue, it would occur with both cameras, and it did not.

 

Images: I will post those this evening.

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jaapv:

 

I have always been impressed with B&H, and I have never abused, nor taken unfair advantage of, their generous return policies.  However, it is a bit of a stretch, and an unfounded assumption on your part, to say that this problem is an issue of user error.  I know how to use a camera, and I also know when something is not right, and something is definitely not right with this camera or with the adapter.

I said "hardly". Never say never. But it is incomprehensible how an image can be out of focus on the camera output and in focus on Live View, given that the data are taken from the same sensor at the same time.

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EDIT - I guess you could have a "loose" image sensor, that jumps a bit with the vibration of the shutter, changing the focus plane. Anything sound loose, with a gentle shake in the forward/back direction?

 

(My car was making "thumps" under acceleration/deceleration, and the mechanic found that the bolts attaching the subframe, that carries front wheels and engine, to the rest of the car, were loose, and needed tightening!)

 

sensor movement would cause issues with all lenses, whether AF or not

 

even with peaking off the magnified view is so good that it is hard NOT to focus perfectly ..... and magnification with peaking ...... well I can't see how anyone could fail to get it right ...... but a 90 or 50 lux wide open does leave you little room for user error at close distances whatever camera you use .........

 

spent 20 minutes with an 80/1.4 R wide open trying to get OOF images and failed miserably .... all are perfect .....

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That makes the problem of the OP even harder to figure out. Can anybody think of anything that could produce a focus discrepancy between the EVF and the camera output?

 

 

No. You can't see an image in the EVF unless it is being recorded by the sensor, and the only image you can capture into an exposure is what is being recorded by the sensor. Unless (as has been suggested) the sensor is moving between framing and capture, and back again for framing, there isn't any logical way I can think of for what is in focus on the sensor to be out of focus for the capture. And if that were happening, it would be happening for ALL exposures, not just exposures made with an M Adapter T and manual lens while SL lens produces sharp results.

 

The problem just doesn't make sense. Either the image is focused on the sensor or it isn't. 

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So- the discrepancy must be between the AF attaining correct focus and the user not doing so.

Which to me suggests either a maladjusted diopter or severe astigmatism, the latter being unlikely as there is no problem focusing a rangefinder.

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