Crop factor and a feeling of difference...

[ShivaYash]

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Hello,

Something has been puzzling me and I can't find the answer online. Perhaps someone here can assist.

 

I shot with the M8 from 2008 until mid 2015. I used a 35f2 lens and hated the crop factor. It was too constricting. 

 

I got the M-E and fell in love with the 35 again... it being 'as it should' on a full frame camera. 

 

However now I am back to using a 50 on the M-E as I prefer it. BUT... in theory at least, isn't a 35mm on the M8 basically 50mm, well 45mm? However it seems very different when using a proper 50mm. Furthermore, I've started shooting film again and again much prefer the 50mm on the M6.

 

Am I just being thick here is is there something more technical I should appreciate to understand the differences between cropped sensors versus full frame ones.

 

Thanks,

[ShivaYash]

I should say I still like the 35 but 50 is my go to lens at the moment.

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[hepcat]

That's an interesting observation.  After shooting 24x36mm film for thirty-five years, the switch to the APS-C sensor was disconcerting for me as well  The aspect ratio wasn't quite "right" somehow with the standard 35mm lens set.  The 35mm sensor in the M9P seemed to fix that too.  I'm sure it's just a perception, but its interesting that you noticed it as well.   Now I'm shooting an X-T1 also as a backup body to the M9P with the same lenses as well and still have the same issue compared with the 35mm sized sensor of the M9P.

[a.noctilux]

Perspective is different

 

I had that same feeling sometime ago and found out that it has something to explain that.

Even now, when I take the M8 to my eye (from time to time I use it), I am always upset with the viewfinder.

 

With a 50mm the frame is so small, so I let the x1.25 magnifier all time now, even with 35mm on.

 

But when photos taken, the perspectives of what I have planned were not right with the lens used.

 

So, it's not the field of view of the lens used that matter, it's the perspective of that focal length.

 

Just try to take the same scene with your favorite 35mm + M8 and 50mm + M9/ME then analyze them, maybe the answer is here.

 

Arnaud

[earleygallery]

Perspective is different

 

So, it's not the field of view of the lens used that matter, it's the perspective of that focal length.

 

Arnaud

 

The perspective isn't affected by the lens, it's the relationship between you and the subject - now a wider or longer lens will probably change that relationship and therefore the perspective, but if you take the same photo from the same point using different lenses, the perspective will be the same.

 

I suspect the issue here is more to do with the mindset of the photographer, thinking in 'crop mode' versus full frame.

[a.noctilux]

No not from the same point using different lenses !

 

I mean the "same scene" = same framing to see that perspective's difference in the two finished photos (M8+35, M9 + 50 ).

So that is the point, different relationship between near and far subjects in the same framing photos with different focal lenghts.

[Jeff S]

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I most often used a 28 on my M8.2 (roughly 37 equivalent FOV); now it's a 35 on my M240.  

 

But, second most, I still use the 50 on both cameras....but that's primarily because I don't like the 75 frame lines, nor the size of 75 lenses (and the crop factor is closer to 67 on the M8.2).

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

No not from the same point using different lenses !

 

I mean the "same scene" = same framing to see that perspective's difference in the two finished photos (M8+35, M9 + 50 ).

So that is the point, different relationship between near and far subjects in the same framing photos with different focal lenghts.

As soon as you start walking the perspective changes, irrespective of the lens or crop factor. You can use the focal length to equalize the angle of view

If you stay on the same spot the angle of view changes with the focal length and crop factor but not the perspective. You might notice a difference in DOF, as the smaller sensor will give a deeper DOF with the same angle of view.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Another possibility that nobody mentioned so far is that different lenses have different characteristics. This might explain the perceived but not identified differences.

 

Differences in contrast at a given aperture, differences in spherical abberation, etc.

 

I see a very open ended Thread here.

 

Perhaps a Page #27 or possibly a Page #35.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited December 16, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht

[arno_nyhm]

the M8 gives APS-H wich is wider than APS-C. therefor the aspectratio of 2:3 of the 24 by 36mm negativesize is not kept in the frames of the M8.

 

this is not a problem. its a fact.

 

but it might become some kind of trouble to some photographers: some photographers seem to need more vertical  space to compose their pictures. these folks are mostly better off with using the camera turned by 90 degree in a portait-size instead of the usual landscape-size. it is hard enoght to compose this way when an ratio of 3:2 is gven. but one can get used to it. if you are one of these people, the extra wide APS-H becomes a menace when tying to take pictures and having to deal with an extra narrow but extra high picturee field to compose when turned or yet the extra wide landscape instead of the vertical space needed in the first place.

 

this usually results in having to use shorter focuslengthes (or stepping out wider) than one would expect and cutting of the right and left of each single picture to correct for the right aspectratio.  this is a solution to get a useable picture but it wastes the creative potentials of the camera and espescially the lens. it is somehow a waste of viewing angle wich seems to be caused by the crop of1.3 but -in my opinion- much more actually is caused just by the APS-H format of the sensor instead of a 3:2.

[jaapv]

the M8 gives APS-H wich is wider than APS-C. therefor the aspectratio of 2:3 of the 24 by 36mm negativesize is not kept in the frames of the M8.

 

this is not a problem. its a fact.

 

but it might become some kind of trouble to some photographers: some photographers seem to need more vertical  space to compose their pictures. these folks are mostly better off with using the camera turned by 90 degree in a portait-size instead of the usual landscape-size. it is hard enoght to compose this way when an ratio of 3:2 is gven. but one can get used to it. if you are one of these people, the extra wide APS-H becomes a menace when tying to take pictures and having to deal with an extra narrow but extra high picturee field to compose when turned or yet the extra wide landscape instead of the vertical space needed in the first place.

 

this usually results in having to use shorter focuslengthes (or stepping out wider) than one would expect and cutting of the right and left of each single picture to correct for the right aspectratio.  this is a solution to get a useable picture but it wastes the creative potentials of the camera and espescially the lens. it is somehow a waste of viewing angle wich seems to be caused by the crop of1.3 but -in my opinion- much more actually is caused just by the APS-H format of the sensor instead of a 3:2.

 

Not much fact in the above post, I fear. In fact, it is completely unfounded.

 

APS-H ( a Canon format) is 29.2 x 20.2 mm which is so close to 3:2 as to make no discernible difference at all. Actually, you have marginally more vertical space.

 

The M8 sensor is 27x18 mm, exactly 3:2.