New SL and 24-90 Lens - AF is not working at all

[Budfox]

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If I was Rob, and depending on my dealer and availability of support, I would probably also seriously consider cutting my losses and getting a refund. He can then wait either for version 2, or at least a few months to try again with version 1 and a fresh start.

 

It is very frustrating getting a faulty new product, especially such one with such a high price tag.

 

After a few months, any system issues with the camera will likely be revealed, and if he chooses he can hopefully test any new camera in shop before taking it home.

[IkarusJohn]

Hi Rob,

 

Don't take any of it personally.  The LUF is a noisy and disparate bunch, but helpful in the main.

 

Your posting was surprising, though, it has to be said.  Speaking from past experience, once Leica has released a product, it is what it is.  They have been very surprising with the swift firmware release for the SL (and also for the T - not so swift, but significant changes which suggest long term support for that system).  The SL is pretty much what it is, and for Leica it is mature.  I wouldn't hold your breath for an SL2 for a while, and when that is released, the whole quality control discussion will start again.

 

Of course, returning the camera for a refund is your right, and the AF not working is disappointing; but ... faults are a fact of life.  The solution was really to take in the camera, lens and battery (or send it in) and get them to replace the lot. At least, they should have given you a replacement (shop demo) to use in the meantime.  Ditching the whole thing did look a little premature.

 

I guess you also have to remember that most people are here because they love the Leica brand and its products (there are a few trolls hanging about, but every dog has its fleas, I guess).

 

So, good luck with your photography, don't take anything here too personally, and we hope to see you back with a new SL, posting pictures, soon.

 

Cheers

John

 

PS - I have to confess that my SL developed an issue on Saturday (when I took the comparison shots for the AA-90-M).  I generally have Review turned off, and I'm happy that way.  Taking pictures, the screen suddenly went blank.  I could only get the image back by turning the camera off and on again.  I did a factory reset, formatted the cards and tried pretty much everything, but whatever I did the screen would freeze, initially with the image I had just taken, then it would go black.  I think I have only taken 500 images in total on the camera.

 

So, I lept aboard my motor bike and shot into the dealer.  I understand this is the only SL in the country at this stage (unless PhotoWarehouse has sold one).  I showed it to the staff, after initial shock and disbelief, I was walking out the door with the shop demo camera (the only other one in the country), with their apologies.  I guess my camera, lens and battery will wing its way back to Wetzlar, where the gnomes will scratch their heads and try to work out what went wrong.  I wonder if it was some weird combination of settings I was using, but I doubt it.

 

An electronic glitch and nothing more - probably the processor.

 

Am I bothered?  Not really.  I was without a functioning SL for about 30 minutes, and I remain a happy and committed customer - more than willing to sing the praises of Leica, Lacklands (the local importer) and ProGear who sold me their first camera.

 

Shit happens; it's how you respond to it that matters.

Edited December 21, 2015 by IkarusJohn

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[Jeff S]

I appreciate early adopters because, without them, I wouldn't be able to follow my practice of holding off on any desired new Leica digital cameras until early bugs/issues are revealed and a couple or more FW updates are released.  

 

Of course stuff happens, with all brands.  But small company or not, digital complexity or not, Leica QC isn't what it was when I first became a customer decades ago. Improvements need to be made, especially considering current premium prices.  (The same is true of lenses...witness issues with the 50 APO Summicron-M, various S lenses, etc).

 

The good news is that FW releases seem to be coming more quickly, and serious broad-based issues (strap lugs, display failures, etc) are typically addressed with a sense of urgency and fairness.

 

So far I've been fortunate....no serious problems with 2 M8.2s (after deliberately holding off on the M8) or an M240...and I don't suffer from GAS.  But it is discouraging, and unfortunately expected, that early adopters seem to be more like beta testers at times, although I recognize that we typically don't hear as much from satisfied users.

 

Jeff

Edited December 21, 2015 by Jeff S

[rick_dykstra]

Hi Rob. I completely understand your frustration and decision. I do the same now with Apple products. If there is a hardware glitch of any sort, they can have it back and I'll have a new one, until I get one that works as it should. 

 

I was one of the first to order an R8 upon their release, sight unseen, along with a bunch of lenses to start my Leica photography journey. It was a big decision. Delivery of that first black R8 body was delayed due to a truck crash on the autobahn. I don't know whether that one was checked and re-sent to me, but it had a few problems, including failure to trigger the flash and a few light leaks. It went for a plane ride back to Germany and I used a loaner in the meantime. I went through a series of loaners, all with varying problems - more light leaks and electrical failures, including 'no takeey piccy when pushy button'. I was doing weekend pro work at the time, so was well supported by the dealer and importer. I think I was on body number six when I got my original one back, which had another electrical failure. It went back, which I was sad about as I quite liked its serial number. I regretfully suggested that I probably should not see it again, which was agreed to. I got a brand new one with a noticeably higher serial number. It had electrical problems and went for a plane ride back to Germany. I went through a couple more loaners, with more of the usual problems. Then I got my second 'made just for me R8' back and it's been great. I love it, even though it's presently dead, from me accidentally firing the shutter when the film leader was protruding. I felt like I'd dropped my baby. One day I'll fix it, pulling a spare shutter from another old but good R8 I have. Late in production I bought a silver one, which is gorgeous and perfect and is used with my DMR. So, I've been through about eleven R8s to end up with the three, two of which work, most of the time. I simply love using them. They are such a good design.

 

In thinking of your situation, if I'd started with just one body and one lens, rather than doing paid work with a system I'd committed to, I think I might have handed the body and lens back and talked about alternatives with the store guys. But now, many years later, I'm glad I held on for the ride. Very glad. The physical symptoms of anxiety I experienced as a result of the failures are in the past.  Luckily, the kids' soccer teams I was working with had no problems with re-shoots if their negatives were the ones with the tell-tale green staining of light leaks. Aaarrgghh! What I learnt was, even though they use words like 'perfect' in their marketing, Leica is not perfect. But when they're good, they're very good indeed and in my personal view, worth the effort. 

[wlaidlaw]

Compared with my Morgan Three Wheeler, Leicas are a model of accurate construction, quality control and probity, when it comes to a fully finished product plus rapid reaction to any problems, with free repairs well organised. My M3W has done 5,000km from new. It is on its fourth charging regulator, its second clutch/vibration absorption compensator is dying, the rear wheel bearings need replacing and the rear toothed belt drive sprocket made in super soft aluminium, has nearly worn out. It has to go back to a dealer to have a crude chassis stiffening modification added to reduce the incidence of the cracked chassis that many owners have had. It also needs to have a modification to the steering, which has a dangerous level of bump steer. It took the threat of a class action suit to get Morgan to agree to the chassis modification recall and I will have to pay for the steering mod, even though that should also have been subject to a recall and free repair. Various other bits have fallen off and had to be mended or replaced. I am lucky that I am still on my original exhaust, many owners are on their third or fourth, after cracking of the welded joints at the end of the manifolds. 

 

We Morgan M3W owners really know what it is to be the product development department.

 

Wilson

[scott kirkpatrick]

....

 

We Morgan M3W owners really know what it is to be the product development department.

 

Wilson

 

What year was the Mog last made?  Maybe users of Leica R lenses  (or the S-1) are the right point of comparison.  Now that the R components can be used again, our pleas for firmware support (think of lens profiles) have to be weighed in Wetzlar against the fact that no more R lenses will be made and sold as a result.

 

scott

[wlaidlaw]

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What year was the Mog last made?  Maybe users of Leica R lenses  (or the S-1) are the right point of comparison.  Now that the R components can be used again, our pleas for firmware support (think of lens profiles) have to be weighed in Wetzlar against the fact that no more R lenses will be made and sold as a result.

 

scott

The M3W only came out in 2012 and is a current model http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?p=2860673 I  am not talking about the original Morgan 3 Wheeler, which I had as my first car in 1963, a 1929 Aero Blackburne Tomtit Major engined SS. 

 

Wilson

Edited December 21, 2015 by wlaidlaw

[Peter H]

Compared with my Morgan Three Wheeler, Leicas are a model of accurate construction, quality control and probity,...............................................

 

 

 

Wilson, it's not a good sign when we resort to Morgan as a our example of a contemporary company with less effective quality control and precision than Leica.

[wlaidlaw]

Wilson, it's not a good sign when we resort to Morgan as a our example of a contemporary company with less effective quality control and precision than Leica.

Peter, 

 

It was to illustrate that with Leica, my glass is half full (or better  ), whereas with Morgan, which I am guessing is about a similar sized company, it is definitely half empty (or less ). Unlike Leica, Morgan appear to be totally incapable of learning from their past errors and poor assembly practice, over the last 50 years. The SL and kit lens, is the first Leica product for a long time for me, that has been near perfect in its first month. I have only had one minor glitch, where the buttons refused to customise, totally cured by a reset and a few firmware bugs found (flash TTL, DNG thumbnail quality for zoom and text entry for profiles). 

 

Wilson

[earleygallery]

 

I was one of the first to order an R8 upon their release, sight unseen, along with a bunch of lenses to start my Leica photography journey…….. One day I'll fix it, pulling a spare shutter from another old but good R8 I have. 

 

I thought I could do the same for my mint, owned from new R3. Sadly not. 

 

Apart from finding a tech willing to work on the R now, they explained the double labour cost of stripping down two cameras, and the amount of work required to calibrate the replacement shutter fitted to the camera - they're not plug and play modules. Net result would be a repair bill which would far exceed the cost of buying a 'new' mint camera. 

 

Sadly and R (even the R8/9) with electrical problems is now a paperweight. 

 

I suspect this may change at some point in the future when the last working R's are becoming rare, if interest in them (and prices) pick up then, like old cars, they become repairable again! 

[Peter H]

Peter,

 

It was to illustrate that with Leica, my glass is half full (or better ), whereas with Morgan, which I am guessing is about a similar sized company, it is definitely half empty (or less ). Unlike Leica, Morgan appear to be totally incapable of learning from their past errors and poor assembly practice, over the last 50 years. The SL and kit lens, is the first Leica product for a long time for me, that has been near perfect in its first month. I have only had one minor glitch, where the buttons refused to customise, totally cured by a reset and a few firmware bugs found (flash TTL, DNG thumbnail quality for zoom and text entry for profiles).

 

Wilson

I appreciate that Wison. I wasn't really being serious. And I ought to add that over many years my experience with Leica and their products could not have been better.

 

I have only ever had one camera with a fault, and that was so trivial that I ignored it until a month before the warranty expired to get it fixed. Even then I nearly didn't bother, but Leica persuaded me to get it rectified in case I ever wanted to sell it, so I did, and got a fully serviced and gleamingly buffed-up camera back within about ten days.

 

I fully sympathise with those who do have problems, but it certainly isn't an inevitable part of the Leica experience.

[wlaidlaw]

I thought I could do the same for my mint, owned from new R3. Sadly not. 

 

Apart from finding a tech willing to work on the R now, they explained the double labour cost of stripping down two cameras, and the amount of work required to calibrate the replacement shutter fitted to the camera - they're not plug and play modules. Net result would be a repair bill which would far exceed the cost of buying a 'new' mint camera. 

 

Sadly and R (even the R8/9) with electrical problems is now a paperweight. 

 

I suspect this may change at some point in the future when the last working R's are becoming rare, if interest in them (and prices) pick up then, like old cars, they become repairable again! 

James, 

 

Tried to PM you but your mailbox is saying it is full. I think this is an error from when we changed over to the new format forum. I had the same problem and I had to ask Andreas to reset my message mailbox. 

 

Wilson