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Meeting with Leica UK 9 Dec


wlaidlaw

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I had a meeting with a staff member at Leica UK yesterday to discuss the various minor niggles on the SL and a couple of more serious issues.

 

The two serious matters were the current flashes not operating correctly in aperture priority mode and the non-recognition of R zoom lenses, even though you select them in the R lens menu. We agreed that what I was seeing was correct even though a small attempt was made to persuade me that the flash was supposed to operate like it does at the moment, not locking the shutter speed to the selected value but in the end my view prevailed. It was agree that I should set out in detail the problems to Jesko von Oyenhausen in an email and ask for a firmware update to be written for the SF58 to enable it to communicate properly with the SL. I suspect that we may be out of luck with the 24 and 26, as their FW cannot be updated and it seems like the way that the SL communicates with a flash has changed from the previous generations of cameras. It may make sense to have a menu option to force the flash to fire in bounce mode, even when at closer distances, as at present, the camera can decide you are too close to use flash and will not fire. 

 

On the R zoom lenses focal length reporting issue, it seems this may have got kicked into the long grass, while waiting for the R to T adapter. It is likely that when this arrives it will read the ROM chips but there are many pre-ROM lenses that folks will still want to use. I put forward Jono's and my idea of using the median value of the zoom focal length limits as a interim measure. At least this would enable functions dependant on the camera recognising the focal length of the lens mounted, to work. It was agreed that this seemed a sensible compromise and one that only required a few lines of code to be written. Again I should pass this on to Jesko. 

 

The other minor niggles like the space bar not working consistently on text entry and wider options for key customisation are all in hand and should appear in forthcoming FW updates. 

 

On awaited hardware, not such good news. For the UK the remote will be late first quarter, the 90-280 probably second quarter, the 50/1.4 late third quarter to fourth quarter and R to T at least the end of next year. 

 

Wilson

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Thanks for the update.

 

Any news on when Leica Image Shuttle SL for Windows/OSX will be released?

I asked on this and the answer was not known. It was suggested that you either update to the latest version of Image Shuttle (V.3) and this may work to some extent or alternatively use Mac Image Capture (which I always found worked better than Image Shuttle). The final alternative is to use the SL app for iOS or Android on a phone or tablet, which other than a few niggles on wifi connection, works just fine once connected. 

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Thanks, Wilson. My tablet is a Surface Pro 3, so I need the full blown windows version of LIS. I'll try the latest version - I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

 

I can use a web browser to access the SL's cards over wifi with the SL in host mode, but you can't take photos at the same time.

I can use the cable to access the card directly as an external drive and take photos at the same time, but I'm certain to trip over the cable.

I'm hoping LIS will offer full wifi tethering.

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Another few points which were brought up were as follows:

 

1) The poor quality thumbnail being generated from a DNG image on the back LCD, which goes all fuzzy when you zoom it. This is a known issue and will be sorted in a forthcoming FW update. In the meantime, the work around is to take DNG + JPEG, as the JPEG thumbnail is proper quality and can be zoomed up to pixellation. 

 

2) If you are taking video and will want to edit it, unless you have Final Cut Pro (or a similar professional Windows video programme) and a large powerful Mac Pro with loads of RAM (or again the Windows equivalent), you may want to avoid taking video in 4K. Otherwise you will find that it is very difficult to edit the clips and they will soak up huge amounts of SD memory when taking and then make vast files once converted for end use. They suggested using a 256GB card in slot 1 if you were taking 4K, even though this may delay start up, according to some reports. Again the L Log video format is really for professional use only, as it will look very faded and low dynamic range until run through professional decompression software. 

Edited by wlaidlaw
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R to T at least the end of next year. 

 

Did they explain why it should take so long to bring out an adaptor? Will the R to T have additional capability than the current arrangement (which apparently works) of stacking R>M and M>T adaptors – perhaps some kind of auto-diaphragm ability?

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Leica UK think that the R to T adapter will read the ROM and may (I stress may) be auto diaphragm. I suspect that this is proving more difficult to engineer than anticipated or at least to do so at a cost where anyone would buy it. If you spend lots on R&D and bring out an adapter that costs £2000, you will never sell enough to amortise your R&D costs. I would hope that it is lesson learnt from when the S2 came out and was so expensive that less customers than hoped, bought it. Now that the S007 is more reasonable and good discounts can be had, they are selling quite well.

 

One point that was brought up was detection of R lens zoom position. Leica UK thought they remembered the R8 and R9 being able to read the actual focal length when a ROM lens was being zoomed. I said I had thought the ROM chip was passive information only and did not give any active read outs. The only active read out from the lens being the reporting of aperture. Now I have very little experience of zoom lenses on R cameras, as I was a user of the competition (Contax RTS2 and RX), so perhaps someone who is more familiar with them could comment. Now obviously if the lens can give an active read out of focal length via the contacts, this would be useful information for the SL, for both auto ISO as a function of focal length plus flash zoom and slow sync calculations. 

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Thanks Wilson. 

 

I have enough invested in R lenses that I'm willing to wait for a top notch R Adapter SL and will be willing to pay a pretty penny for it.

(I just bought another R lens rarity ... couldn't help myself.  :mellow: )

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Another few points which were brought up were as follows:

 

1) The poor quality thumbnail being generated from a DNG image on the back LCD, which goes all fuzzy when you zoom it. This is a known issue and will be sorted in a forthcoming FW update. In the meantime, the work around is to take DNG + JPEG, as the JPEG thumbnail is proper quality and can be zoomed up to pixellation. 

 

2) If you are taking video and will want to edit it, unless you have Final Cut Pro (or a similar professional Windows video programme) and a large powerful Mac Pro with loads of RAM (or again the Windows equivalent), you may want to avoid taking video in 4K. Otherwise you will find that it is very difficult to edit the clips and they will soak up huge amounts of SD memory when taking and then make vast files once converted for end use. They suggested using a 256GB card in slot 1 if you were taking 4K, even though this may delay start up, according to some reports. Again the L Log video format is really for professional use only, as it will look very faded and low dynamic range until run through professional decompression software. 

FWIW, I have switched to a 512GB Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS1 card in slot 1, with a 256GB card in slot 2. It did not adversely affect startup time, which is still around 2 seconds. I really do hope that they get the DNG preview issue sorted out, as dealing with the unneeded jpegs is a hassle.

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Thanks Wilson. 

 

I have enough invested in R lenses that I'm willing to wait for a top notch R Adapter SL and will be willing to pay a pretty penny for it.

(I just bought another R lens rarity ... couldn't help myself.  :mellow: )

I'm in the same situation.  I am slowly working through some very intriguing R wides and teles:  15, (18-21)M, 60, 80, 90, 100, 180, 280.  I have several stacked adapters, but am anxious to see automatic lens identification, and if possible, the ability for the SL to focus and meter open, then stop down for the shot.

 

scott

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I am afraid we ran out of time, as I had to be at the other end of London in the city for 1PM for a retired directors' lunch (not to be missed!)

 

BTW there is new FW being released in 4 days. 

 

Wilson

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I'm in the same situation.  I am slowly working through some very intriguing R wides and teles:  15, (18-21)M, 60, 80, 90, 100, 180, 280.  I have several stacked adapters, but am anxious to see automatic lens identification, and if possible, the ability for the SL to focus and meter open, then stop down for the shot.

 

I just added to my already-overmuch R lens collection what looks to be a very nice, super clean Super-Elmar-R 15mm f/3.5 ... should be here in a week or so.  :o

 

I doubt there's any way to implement automatic lens identification unless you have ROM lenses and the "R Adapter SL" reads the ROM. I hope it does! But all my lenses excepting two are 3cam models, and the other two are older than that. 

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I doubt there's any way to implement automatic lens identification unless you have ROM lenses and the "R Adapter SL" reads the ROM. I hope it does! But all my lenses excepting two are 3cam models, and the other two are older than that. 

 

I hope Leica will make the ROM upgrade available again. 

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I just added to my already-overmuch R lens collection what looks to be a very nice, super clean Super-Elmar-R 15mm f/3.5 ... should be here in a week or so.  :o

 

I doubt there's any way to implement automatic lens identification unless you have ROM lenses and the "R Adapter SL" reads the ROM. I hope it does! But all my lenses excepting two are 3cam models, and the other two are older than that. 

 

15 is a lot of fun now that you can see what it sees in the viewfinder.  I was messing around with mine in a very crowded setting yesterday, and it brought out my worst Bruce Gilden impulses.  

 

All of my R's except the 60 macro are ROMed.

 

scott

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errrr...... I've had the remote release cable for 10 days ...... so they must be shipping now ..... 

Thanks for the other info, Wilson. 

I asked to buy a remote on Wednesday at Leica Mayfair. Robin went over from the café, where we were having our chat to the shop on the other side of Bruton Place and came back with the information that they were not shipping until first quarter - hmmmmmm? Maybe I should have asked Ffordes today, when I bought another battery. 

 

Wilson

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15 is a lot of fun now that you can see what it sees in the viewfinder.  I was messing around with mine in a very crowded setting yesterday, and it brought out my worst Bruce Gilden impulses.  

 

All of my R's except the 60 macro are ROMed.

 

I'm looking forward to the 15mm. With that lens, the SL set to square format becomes my digital Hassy SWC (aside from the additional DoF). 

 

I asked about having some of my lenses ROMed ... Leica USA isn't offering the service anymore, never mind that it would cost me a fortune if they did AND make my lenses pretty much unusable with the Leicaflex SL. I don't mind the need to input a lens code—I change lenses pretty infrequently so it isn't much of a bother—but what I would like aperture info and control so more of the SL features could be used. 

 

I'm waiting for a remote too. 

Edited by ramarren
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