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Puts Contra Reid?

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If you reread his "upshot" conclusion, you may see why some have found his overall conclusions to be misleading.

 

But I think if you read both upshots together, his recommendations are sound.

 

John

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Of course, I do not know personally either of the two guys, but is clear that their minds are in different moods : Erwin does not collect payment for its Net articles: clearly, he's someway self-satisfacted by the fact that lot of people can admire his profund tech knowledge and scientific methodology; Sean is a Pro photog who has verified on the real field that his work as tester is appreciated: people pay and continue to subscribe. Personally, I appreciate Erwin's work mainly in writings not dedicated to lenses: I learned, for instance, lot of things about theory of Digital Photo that are difficult to find elsewhere, and surely not for free. About lenses I prefer by far the practical approach towards the scientific one: as other have said, the basic tech data are provided by vendors, and the deeper analysys of Erwin, in my op., drive the reader in directions that seem distant from the practical usage. BTW, the Erwin words regarding lens tests that are the argument of this thread seem to me far from insulting and offensive : simply, is the approach of a tech that has put a Ferrari engine on an engine-test machine with data collection facility, towards the opinion of an auto magazine test driver that in his review obviously writes a chapter entitled "engine".

Personally, I can read both with interest and if one day I'll decide to buy a CV 75 and not a Summicron 75 it will be not based on the tests of Erwin or Sean, but for I have read that many people like me have found that CVs are generally very good for their price

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People who can do, DO, people who cannot do, TEACH

 

This is the feeling I have with both.

 

Sean is a photographer and tells us how he does for himself, probably closer to our needs and experience.

 

Put does it the teacher way, great explanation, very scientificaly done... but? like teachers, probably cannot do anything in real life!!! just theory and nothing practical. And by the way do not ask him any question, when he will finish answering you will probably no longer understand your own question !!!

 

Eric

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People who can do, DO, people who cannot do, TEACH

 

{snipped}

 

Geez. Just what we need here--more ridiculous statements.

 

The very best teachers can do stuff, theorize it so there are some best practices, and then communicate effectively what they do. Both Reid and Puts IMO, are very good teachers.

 

So to me there is no Puts contra Reid.

 

But specifically on the M8, Sean really knows what he's talking about, and has a lot more to teach, IMO, than Puts.

 

On the IR filter front, for example, Puts is examining something so far removed from the actual issues that not only are his questions futile, his conclusions are plain dumb in this case. Oops. It's called a flaw in the hypothesis. Yes, he proves something. But the quality of that something is of no consequence whatsoever.

 

Hey, that's ok. Plenty of great teachers are wrong from time to time, and "even great Homer nods."

 

Puts on Leica glass is fabulous, and teaches well, IMO, though differently than Reid. Take what you can from both.

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Quite right Jamie. The best teachers are inspirational and can change people's lives.

 

Everyone reading this thread has a teacher to thank for the fact.

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I feel as though I should come to Puts' defense here, too. As I stated earlier, I don't like his Gothic writing style or his arrogant attitude, but I've learned a great deal from his writings on lenses. Let's give credit where credit is due.

 

Larry

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Guest guy_mancuso

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Quite right Jamie. The best teachers are inspirational and can change people's lives.

 

Everyone reading this thread has a teacher to thank for the fact.

 

 

I hope I can do that with my workshops in the fall. That would be a lifetime goal for me.

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To be sure, there are things that can be learned from many people. I think that if Erwin can simply stay focused on trying to do his own thing, rather than believing himself to be in a position to review (and denigrate, to speak frankly) other reviewers, that might be best for all. I think he might want to keep in mind that his approach is one of many and it certainly is neither inherently superior nor without its mistakes and limitations. A tendency towards hubris will put a lot of people off.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest stnami

............... any foul that I hit Sean has been long neutralised.........................the problem with a thread of this nature is the many of the participants have isolated themselves from the rest of photography ..............the tunnel is getting so narrow even they are having difficulty in squeezing through...................CV naaahhhh VC is the future!!!!

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Geez. Just what we need here--more ridiculous statements.

 

The very best teachers can do stuff, theorize it so there are some best practices, and then communicate effectively what they do. Both Reid and Puts IMO, are very good teachers.

 

So to me there is no Puts contra Reid.

 

But specifically on the M8, Sean really knows what he's talking about, and has a lot more to teach, IMO, than Puts.

 

On the IR filter front, for example, Puts is examining something so far removed from the actual issues that not only are his questions futile, his conclusions are plain dumb in this case. Oops. It's called a flaw in the hypothesis. Yes, he proves something. But the quality of that something is of no consequence whatsoever.

 

Hey, that's ok. Plenty of great teachers are wrong from time to time, and "even great Homer nods."

 

Puts on Leica glass is fabulous, and teaches well, IMO, though differently than Reid. Take what you can from both.

 

If you read my sentence you will see that you come to the same conclusion. Only people who can DO can teach, this is Sean Reid. Put is basically very good at theory and in no way the point of view of some one who DOES, a photographer point of view.

 

I think a photographer approach of a lens analisys is better that a scientific way of looking at it.

 

Do you prefer an scientifical description of an orgasm or do you prefer to have an orgasm experience???????????? LOL

 

Both my parents are teachers and I love so this statement so much, sorry for ofending :-)

 

Eric

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Do you prefer an scientifical description of an orgasm or do you prefer to have an orgasm experience???????????? LOL...

 

To put the boot on the other foot, would you rather fly in a plane that had been designed by an engineer, or would you rather fly in one designed by a pilot ;-)

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Guest stnami
Put does it the teacher way, great explanation, very scientificaly done... but? like teachers, probably cannot do anything in real life!!
............how dumb can one get with a statement like this ....not much............

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To put the boot on the other foot, would you rather fly in a plane that had been designed by an engineer, or would you rather fly in one designed by a pilot ;-)

 

We are not speaking about designing the M8 or its lenses.... we are speaking about the pilot opinion...

 

Eric

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I welcome the issue of new articles by both authors and have no need to criticise one for the benefit of the other. I take what I can and store it in my bank of Leica knowledge and go back frequently to check their opinions before the acquisition of another expensive piece of equipment.

 

I don't particularly admire Erwins photographic achievements, there's plenty of other web sites for that, but his detailed analysis and recomendations have cost me thousands of pounds over the last few years. I was quite disappointed hen I understood he had taken the silver yen piece and am really pleased he's started publishing Leica material again.

 

Sean's reviews are lighter and better illustrated and clearly show how the equipment can be used. It's good to see his folio of articles growing.

 

Long may they live in harmony.

 

Rolo

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