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White blossoms with guest. SL and Canon 180 mm Macro plus 1,4 Kenko extender.

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SL and Canon Macro 180 mm plus extender Kenko 1,4 - works without AF.

 

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Blue flower at a fence - SL and Canon Macro 180 mm plus extender Kenko 1,4.

 

 

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I am just curious, wouldn’t an appropriate Canon body offer better AF, higher resolution to Canon native lenses?

 

I stick to the SL because I’m sold on the image quality that the SL native lenses could deliver.

 

If there were alternative for me to mount my SL lenses onto a Canon, Nikon or Sony body at no lesser performance than Leica SL,..I would leave Leica SL in the dust.

 

It beats me to understand ‘why’ bother to use Canon or Nikon lenses on SL body with struggling AF and no better image quality? Or was I wrong? Education me!

Edited by sillbeers15
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There are some lenses, which Leica has not in their production program and will probably never have. That is the case with native macro  lenses. I sold all my canon products with exception of these - which are the Canon Macro 180 mm, the Canon Macro 100 mm and the very special MP-E 65 mm. And all them perform excellent with the SL and the exceptional good finder of the SL. Why then use a Canon and why not the SL and keep 2 systems ? But I would consider to buy a Leica Macro lens if the would have a native one in the future - provided it would be better than the Canons. I doubt one will come in near future. And a similiar replacing  the MP-E 65 will never come - for sure. Even the other brands have none. By the way other lenses are not available by Leica - i.e. one like the 17 mm TS-E - a tilt and shift wide angle lens. I had one, but have sold it. If I still had it, I would use it with the SL too.

 

And of course for other purposes original Leica lenses - the 24/90 and the 90/280. But I do not see the point, why not to use special and extra  lenses together with the SL, if Leica does not have it in their product range.

And I  am not interested to run 2 different systems for these purposes.

Edited by HeinzX
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There are some lenses, which Leica has not in their production program and will probably never have. That is the case with native macro lenses. I sold all my canon products with exception of these - which are the Canon Macro 180 mm, the Canon Macro 100 mm and the very special MP-E 65 mm. And all them perform excellent with the SL and the exceptional good finder of the SL. Why then use a Canon and why not the SL and keep 2 systems ? But I would consider to buy a Leica Macro lens if the would have a native one in the future - provided it would be better than the Canons. I doubt one will come in near future. And a similiar replacing the MP-E 65 will never come - for sure. Even the other brands have none. By the way other lenses are not available by Leica - i.e. one like the 17 mm TS-E - a tilt and shift wide angle lens. I had one, but have sold it. If I still had it, I would use it with the SL too.

 

And of course for other purposes original Leica lenses - the 24/90 and the 90/280. But I do not see the point, why not to use special and extra lenses together with the SL, if Leica does not have it in their product range.

And I am not interested to run 2 different systems for these purposes.

Exactly my point, would not you get better overall results using a Canon body to utilize Canon lenses?

 

What advantages can a Leica SL body give you with Canon lenses over Canon body with Canon lenses?

 

Unless you’re saying that you had enough of Canon and want to move on to another system for whatever reason and find that for that particular focal length or speciality function Leica cannot support (for the time being).

As for me, I see optical quality as the core above the electronics capability of the camera body. That is why I stay on with the SL body to utilize the best I could get out of it instead of just bitching it having not as good AF capability as a Japanese alternative. Btw the Japs are way stronger in electronics over Leica. I am not even sure if Leica can ever get on par with them. But when it comes to optics, the table gets turned around.

Edited by sillbeers15
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I am just curious, wouldn’t an appropriate Canon body offer better AF, higher resolution to Canon native lenses?

 

I stick to the SL because I’m sold on the image quality that the SL native lenses could deliver.

 

If there were alternative for me to mount my SL lenses onto a Canon, Nikon or Sony body at no lesser performance than Leica SL,..I would leave Leica SL in the dust.

 

It beats me to understand ‘why’ bother to use Canon or Nikon lenses on SL body with struggling AF and no better image quality? Or was I wrong? Education me!

 

 

Exactly my point, would not you get better overall results using a Canon body to utilize Canon lenses?

 

What advantages can a Leica SL body give you with Canon lenses over Canon body with Canon lenses?

 

Unless you’re saying that you had enough of Canon and want to move on to another system for whatever reason and find that for that particular focal length or speciality function Leica cannot support (for the time being).

As for me, I see optical quality as the core above the electronics capability of the camera body. That is why I stay on with the SL body to utilize the best I could get out of it instead of just bitching it having not as good AF capability as a Japanese alternative. Btw the Japs are way stronger in electronics over Leica. I am not even sure if Leica can ever get on par with them. But when it comes to optics, the table gets turned around.

 

 

Currently, the Leica SL system is a far from complete system, e.g. : no long telephoto prime lenses, no extenders, no FF macro lenses and no tilt & shift lenses … and the latter, regardless of manufacturer, are always MF.  There are some R lenses which for some almost fill these gaps but they are not exactly 'state of the art' and other manufacturers' offerings e.g. Canon and Nikon, are both superior, and available.  Anyone committed to the SL system and requiring a lens longer than 280mm or a decent shift lens wider than 28mm needs to improvise without having to buy or hire another body.  Until such time as Leica Camera AG 'fills the gaps' in the SL system, SL users will improvise. Personally I use a Canon tele lens and Canon extenders … and Canon and Olympus shift lenses … because there are no alternative SL or R lenses to match these … and because Leica and Novoflex made available the 'to SL' adapters.  MF can be a chore with tele lenses but there is no alternative unless I buy e.g. a Canon DSLR … which would likely be obsolete as soon as Canon officially announce their rumoured FF mirrorless system … and same applies to Nikon. 

 

The fact that Leica Camera AG has not even hinted that any SL tele lenses longer than 280mm with matching extenders are on the horizon, seriously handicaps and hinders what has the potential to be the finest FF mirrorless camera system … and it risks being further kicked into the sand as soon as Canon and Nikon announce their FF mirrorless systems. You can bet your bottom dollar that when Canon and Nikon officially announce their FF mirrorless systems, they will likely include or at least announce as 'forthcoming', long tele primes and extenders. Professional sports and wildlife photographers cannot, and would not, work without them. And at the 2020 Olympics I'd be very surprised not to see a complete Nikon FF mirrorless system … i.e. complete with e.g. 500mm and 600mm lenses plus extenders.  

 

Contrary to some forum members' opinions, the professional market for long telephoto lenses and extenders is a very significant sector … in fact it's huge … especially when all the camera hire agencies are included … and there are likely more than a few professionals who would further consider the SL system if longer lenses were on the menu.   

 

Furthermore, I thought that one reason for building the new ultra-modern Leitz Park manufacturing facility was to expand camera / lens production? This has not exactly proceeded very quickly as regards the SL system. 

 

dunk 

Edited by dkCambridgeshire
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Just to follow up on Dunks post above, Nikon is about to announce their mirrorless FF system https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/29/nikon-mirrorless-paper-mockup.aspx/, and links therein. A 500mm fresnel lens is also about to come https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/14/the-new-af-s-nikkor-500mm-f-5-6e-pf-ed-vr-lens-spotted-at-a-nikon-world-cup-party.aspx/, possibly 600mm and 400mm fresnel lenses as well. One would think Canon will follow up on these offerings.

 

The SL system is super in many respects, but certainly not when it comes to naive long lenses, macro, ts and, importantly for many, starte-of-the-art af.

 

Looking forward to SK2 and new lens roadmaps...!

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Further to Dunk's and Helged's posts Nikon mirrorless will have flange distance of 16mm and very big inner diameter, good to adopt any legacy lens, including extreme aperture lenses.  It is certainly given that Nikon will provide, as they did with 1" sensor Nikon 1 system, native AF adaptor to fit legacy lenses, in particular latest G and E mount AF-S optics [E equals electronic aperture control]. 

 

If Leica is not careful 3rd party adopter makers will come up with solution to fit Leica L lenses on Nikon body.  Think about this one Leica, also think if Nikon initial offering includes 45Mp camera, rumour is for launch of two mirrorless full frame bodies, one is 24Mp and second with sensor similar to D850 = 45Mp.

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Currently, the Leica SL system is a far from complete system, e.g. : no long telephoto prime lenses, no extenders, no FF macro lenses and no tilt & shift lenses … and the latter, regardless of manufacturer, are always MF.  There are some R lenses which for some almost fill these gaps but they are not exactly 'state of the art' and other manufacturers' offerings e.g. Canon and Nikon, are both superior, and available.  Anyone committed to the SL system and requiring a lens longer than 280mm or a decent shift lens wider than 28mm needs to improvise without having to buy or hire another body.  Until such time as Leica Camera AG 'fills the gaps' in the SL system, SL users will improvise. Personally I use a Canon tele lens and Canon extenders … and Canon and Olympus shift lenses … because there are no alternative SL or R lenses to match these … and because Leica and Novoflex made available the 'to SL' adapters.  MF can be a chore with tele lenses but there is no alternative unless I buy e.g. a Canon DSLR … which would likely be obsolete as soon as Canon officially announce their rumoured FF mirrorless system … and same applies to Nikon. 

 

The fact that Leica Camera AG has not even hinted that any SL tele lenses longer than 280mm with matching extenders are on the horizon, seriously handicaps and hinders what has the potential to be the finest FF mirrorless camera system … and it risks being further kicked into the sand as soon as Canon and Nikon announce their FF mirrorless systems. You can bet your bottom dollar that when Canon and Nikon officially announce their FF mirrorless systems, they will likely include or at least announce as 'forthcoming', long tele primes and extenders. Professional sports and wildlife photographers cannot, and would not, work without them. And at the 2020 Olympics I'd be very surprised not to see a complete Nikon FF mirrorless system … i.e. complete with e.g. 500mm and 600mm lenses plus extenders.  

 

Contrary to some forum members' opinions, the professional market for long telephoto lenses and extenders is a very significant sector … in fact it's huge … especially when all the camera hire agencies are included … and there are likely more than a few professionals who would further consider the SL system if longer lenses were on the menu.   

 

Furthermore, I thought that one reason for building the new ultra-modern Leitz Park manufacturing facility was to expand camera / lens production? This has not exactly proceeded very quickly as regards the SL system. 

 

dunk 

 

Well Dunk,

You've just answered my point. Why be bothered to use the Leica SL body since the so called promised lenses did not arrive?

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Further to Dunk's and Helged's posts Nikon mirrorless will have flange distance of 16mm and very big inner diameter, good to adopt any legacy lens, including extreme aperture lenses.  It is certainly given that Nikon will provide, as they did with 1" sensor Nikon 1 system, native AF adaptor to fit legacy lenses, in particular latest G and E mount AF-S optics [E equals electronic aperture control]. 

 

If Leica is not careful 3rd party adopter makers will come up with solution to fit Leica L lenses on Nikon body.  Think about this one Leica, also think if Nikon initial offering includes 45Mp camera, rumour is for launch of two mirrorless full frame bodies, one is 24Mp and second with sensor similar to D850 = 45Mp.

Yes. Nikon will provide more superior mirrorless camera body than Leica will and cheaper as well.

When Nikon mirrorless comes onboard then it is all the more interesting to see if there are anymore such Leica body with Nikon & Canon lenses users anymore?

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Yes. Nikon will provide more superior mirrorless camera body than Leica will and cheaper as well.

When Nikon mirrorless comes onboard then it is all the more interesting to see if there are anymore such Leica body with Nikon & Canon lenses users anymore?

 

 

Nothing has been yet been officially announced, or reviewed, as regards the rumoured Nikon FF mirrorless camera's 'superior' attributes … or its price. 

 

dunk 

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Yes. Nikon will provide more superior mirrorless camera body than Leica will and cheaper as well.

When Nikon mirrorless comes onboard then it is all the more interesting to see if there are anymore such Leica body with Nikon & Canon lenses users anymore?

From what I read in various rumours it appears 45Mp Nikon will come with kit zoom lens 24-70 f4 for similar money to D850, which is cheaper than SL601 at any time.

How good equal or worse it is going to be we will see in due course - announcement is on 23 August.  One thing can be assumed to be certain; it will be compatible with vast arsenal of Nikkor F mount enses covering from 8mm to 800mm plus Tele converters. 

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Nothing has been yet been officially announced, or reviewed, as regards the rumoured Nikon FF mirrorless camera's 'superior' attributes … or its price.

 

Exactly, it seems premature to praise a system that hasn't been revealed yet, right after berating Leica for not selling ultra-telephoto lenses that they never announced (or hinted at).

 

I am dubious of people who claim to be severely hindered by the lack of autofocus lenses longer than 300 mm in the SL range. It's a tiny market, and only Canon and Nikon cater to it. If that's where you are, the choice is obvious.

 

BTW, Sony has announced some ultra-telephoto lenses for their system. All of the big Japanese brands used to show these lenses in their system brochures: Olympus, Pentax, Minolta. These were "PR" lenses, not actual products. They were meant to tell buyers that Brand X was "just as good as" Nikon and Canon. I don't see Leica playing that game, they don't really need to.

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Exactly, it seems premature to praise a system that hasn't been revealed yet, right after berating Leica for not selling ultra-telephoto lenses that they never announced (or hinted at).

 

I am dubious of people who claim to be severely hindered by the lack of autofocus lenses longer than 300 mm in the SL range. It's a tiny market, and only Canon and Nikon cater to it. If that's where you are, the choice is obvious.

 

BTW, Sony has announced some ultra-telephoto lenses for their system. All of the big Japanese brands used to show these lenses in their system brochures: Olympus, Pentax, Minolta. These were "PR" lenses, not actual products. They were meant to tell buyers that Brand X was "just as good as" Nikon and Canon. I don't see Leica playing that game, they don't really need to.

Sony is developing and announcing own long AF lenses also has choice of third party AF lenses, I believe Sigma is working hard to fill gaps in Sony/Zeiss range. No such AF option for Leica except legacy manual focus or Leica CL with crap sensor, sorry, crop sensor.

 

Personally I am not bothered, use exclusively M and R optics, main reason I invested into SL. Sensor is good enough for my needs. If I need more advanced features in a camera in the future Nikon may well be on top of my list.

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Exactly, it seems premature to praise a system that hasn't been revealed yet, right after berating Leica for not selling ultra-telephoto lenses that they never announced (or hinted at).

 

I am dubious of people who claim to be severely hindered by the lack of autofocus lenses longer than 300 mm in the SL range. It's a tiny market, and only Canon and Nikon cater to it. If that's where you are, the choice is obvious.

 

BTW, Sony has announced some ultra-telephoto lenses for their system. All of the big Japanese brands used to show these lenses in their system brochures: Olympus, Pentax, Minolta. These were "PR" lenses, not actual products. They were meant to tell buyers that Brand X was "just as good as" Nikon and Canon. I don't see Leica playing that game, they don't really need to.

 

 

Maybe a small market for Leica when the R system was current, but we've now well and truly embraced the digital age. Leica was the second camera manufacturer to design and market a FF mirrorless 'camera system'; however, so far it's only a 'system camera', but with relatively few 'system lenses' … and it cannot be considered a potentially fully fledged system until lenses longer than its 280mm offering are offered … together with matched extenders.  Some forum members have a regular use for longer lenses on their SL cameras … which is part of the reason why this thread, and the 'Vintage lenses on the SL', and the 'Novoflex EF lens to Leica SL adapter', threads exist. Longer lenses demand for the SL system exists … and that's a fact … and it's why some of us have to innovate to satisfy that need. If Leica did not think that SL users have a need for longer lenses, they would not have cooperated with Novoflex to design and manufacture both the Canon EF to SL,  and the Nikon to SL, body adapters. 

 

dunk  

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Longer lenses demand for the SL system exists … and that's a fact …

Will that market still exist once people realize that a Leica 500mm lens will cost much more than a Canon 500mm lens, with the latest 5D body attached? Probably not. It will end-up like those luscious Pentax and Minolta super-telephoto lenses: a curiosity for collectors, and filler for product brochures.

 

That being said, Leica offers quite a few "super" lenses that you won't find anywhere else. The difference is that have focal lengths that more photographers use. Canon and Nikon (and Sony) don't build a 50mm lenses that are anywhere as good as Leica's. Nobody competes with the Noctiluxes. Every S and SL is at the very top of its class, as are most M lenses.

I can totally understand why someone who wants an AF super-tele would go with Nikon and Canon. For the lenses that I use every day, Leica currently has no equal. I am regularly reminded of this when shooting in harsh available light: Leica's latest can hold detail where other lenses give you nothing but mushy flare. I am much more excited by the upcoming SL 50 'Cron than I would be by a monster tele.

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Will that market still exist once people realize that a Leica 500mm lens will cost much more than a Canon 500mm lens, with the latest 5D body attached? Probably not. It will end-up like those luscious Pentax and Minolta super-telephoto lenses: a curiosity for collectors, and filler for product brochures.

 

That being said, Leica offers quite a few "super" lenses that you won't find anywhere else. The difference is that have focal lengths that more photographers use. Canon and Nikon (and Sony) don't build a 50mm lenses that are anywhere as good as Leica's. Nobody competes with the Noctiluxes. Every S and SL is at the very top of its class, as are most M lenses.

I can totally understand why someone who wants an AF super-tele would go with Nikon and Canon. For the lenses that I use every day, Leica currently has no equal. I am regularly reminded of this when shooting in harsh available light: Leica's latest can hold detail where other lenses give you nothing but mushy flare. I am much more excited by the upcoming SL 50 'Cron than I would be by a monster tele.

 

 

 

Wishful thinking or fact? Leica lenses are excellent and some are absolutely superb … but it does not follow that other manufacturers' lenses are as 'nothing but mushy flare' bad as you imply. And tele lenses are not all 'monsters'.

 

Your biased opinions are exaggerations of actual reality and fail to acknowledge all types of professional photographers' 'tool lenses'.

 

System cameras require system lenses … which most manufacturers provide over a wider range of focal lengths than offered thus far for the SL stable.  

 

And it is a fact that many hundreds of sports and wildlife photographers require long focus lenses with focal lengths greater than 280mm … and with matched extenders. 

 

Furthermore they're visible at any major sporting event … and e.g. in hides (in the broadest sense of the term) at the many hundreds of nature reserves accessible worldwide. 

 

Leica Camera AG even lend their name to one of the most popular 'long telephoto zoom lenses' successfully  marketed by Panasonic.

 

But Leica has not so far 'followed through' with a full frame equivalent.

 

dunk 

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Price points and availability on longer AF telephoto lenses are known barriers to place Leica away from the ‘popular’ camera system brands and as far as I see there are no plans from Leica folks to compete in the ‘common market place’.

 

Leica has not produced any technically leading world class digital cameras in sensor, computing speed, AF accuracy & speed capability in it’s S and SL cameras. It will never be in the future as well as the financial size and semiconductor knowledge does not center in Europe and rather the Japanese camera makers have been way ahead.

 

However said, Leica had its strength and foothold in excellence in Optics and there is just no argument over the image quality it brings. So Leica do not need to produce the best camera bodies to compete but a good camera body to house it’s excellent lenses and most of us Leica users accept that.

 

That is why I still do not understand users of Leica SL utilizing Canon & Nikon lenses while constantly bashing Leica for not producing longer lenses? If Leica were to produce longer lenses, I’m certain the bashing of ‘heavy & expensive’ will again appear. So if Leica will not likely sell well on longer lenses, why bother producing them if I were Leica?

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