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Color quality: SL vs. DMR


wildlightphoto

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I think: Doug, myself as well as  many DMR owners know exactly what the DMR is capable to do.

Technically, it is an Dinosaur under digital camera BUT the colour it produces (as someone mentioned when you get it right)

is very tempted, many will say "This is a real Leica Look" for this look many of Leica owners pay a lot of money for.

At the end of the day, the SL is as it is, a new camera in another generation  with "ALL?" aspect a better camera.

Just curious about the colour, if it's equal to the DMR or not or even better... but it won't change anything.

Edited by van_hai
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I think: Doug, myself as well as  many DMR owners know exactly what the DMR is capable to do.

Technically, it is an Dinosaur under digital camera BUT the colour it produces (as someone mentioned when you get it right)

is very tempted, many will say "This is a real Leica Look" for this look many of Leica owners pay a lot of money for.

At the end of the day, the SL is as it is, a new camera in another generation  with "ALL?" aspect a better camera.

Just curious about the colour, if it's equal to the DMR or not or even better... but it won't change anything.

 

My choice is spend a lot of money for the SL or keep using the Sony.  Color differentiation more like the DMR would influence my wallet's fate.

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I'm most interested in photos processed from RAW files, particularly in challenging conditions.  I'm finding that with the Sony a7II I normally increase clarity and/or saturation to approach the color richness of the DMR files, and I cannot pull as much detail out of shadow areas with the Sony files without ugly artifacts.

 

Doug, 

 
Perhaps this will help you see some aspects of the SL's handling of color and editability. I tried to find a scene during yesterday's walk that would be of interest ... there weren't many opportunities, but these tree trunks posed an exposure problem in that they went from very nearly silver to almost black in the shadows. 
 
Leica SL + Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4
ISO 50 @ f/1.4 @ 1/2500
 
original JPEG out of camera:
 
I took the DNG file, which looked identical to the out of camera JPEG when processed to the LR 6.3 defaults, and adjusted the shadows using the Tone Curve panel, then exported with JPEG quality at 90. No other modifications at all. 
 
LR 6.3 Tone Curve adjustment, point curve mode, bring up shadows 2-4 stops:
23185966476_1522aef5ab_o.png
 
adjusted DNG image: 
 
The two JPEG files above are full resolution, 4000x6000 pixels. They should open in their own windows and you can save them and look at the shadow areas in detail if you want. 
 
I hope that helps you see some of the editablity and color retention, somewhat. Nothing much of more color-interesting subjects seemed to be around to photograph on my walk to do DMR color comparisons. I'll see if anything comes up today when I go out for a walk.
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Ah, here's another that might be of interest. 

 
Bicyclist entering a dark underpass ... ISO 50 @ f/2.4 @ 1/1000 sec
 
original JPEG out of camera: 
 
I modified the Tone Curve a bit and added a small amount of clarity and vibrance to open up the underpass walls and floor a bit. No other adjustments. 
 
LR 6.3 Tone Curve + Clarity + Vibrance adjustments: 
22918113040_4a735fc964_o.png
 
adjusted DNG image: 
 
Again, hope that helps.
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My choice is spend a lot of money for the SL or keep using the Sony.  Color differentiation more like the DMR would influence my wallet's fate.

I understand your pain Doug . . .. I find it hard to answer your question, but I certainly feel that the colour in the SL is much more 'multi faceted' than the colour in the Sony - it seems more subtle, especially the transitions. But in the end, it all boils down to what you actually like - that white dress/blue dress thing finally nailed it home to me that we all see colour differently, so a gold standard isn't really achievable. 

 

But I like it.

I think you really are going to have to make that journey and try one out :)

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these pictures show the dynamic range but not much the color quality / tonality though

 

As I said, there weren't many colorful opportunities to acquire yesterday. I didn't go shooting today, my leg is still a big fragile and I didn't want to push it too hard two days in a row. I might go out to the coast tomorrow or Tuesday. 

Edited by ramarren
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Doug, I dug up (sorry) some DMR photos from a few years ago and compared them to recent files from SL.  They are different but easy enough to make similar in LR.  SL DNGs seem richer.  The big difference I found, naturally, was the greater malleability and depth of the SL files compared to the DMR.  I must say, however, the exercise made me nostalgic for the DMR.

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Doug, I dug up (sorry) some DMR photos from a few years ago and compared them to recent files from SL.  They are different but easy enough to make similar in LR.  SL DNGs seem richer.  The big difference I found, naturally, was the greater malleability and depth of the SL files compared to the DMR.  I must say, however, the exercise made me nostalgic for the DMR.

 

Thanks Tim this makes the decision easier.  My wallet hates you :)

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Apart from the colour quality question, prospective SL buyers who own a DMR also have to consider their DMR's trade in value. I have a DMR but realistically, doubt if would realise more than £650 plus whatever the R9 or R8 would add to the value.

 

Why only £650 ? Because demand is likely to be even less now that both the SL and the M240 offer FF R solutions … and not forgetting that the Sony FF mirrorless offerings too have eaten into DMR demand. 

 

If I decide to acquire an SL I'd be tempted to keep the DMR as a back-up camera - especially if a DMR dealer commission sale risks it sitting on a dealer's shelf for months … if a dealer is prepared to list it. Then again, everything has a price at which it might sell quickly - and I might persuade myself to take the hit and list it myself on TLF Buy and Sell at a knock down price. 

 

When first considering the SL I thought that a body only would suffice as I have a comprehensive set of R focal lengths including the 28-90mm - but now I'm reading all the praises of the 24-90mm - and realise its fast AF and IQ probably make it a much better tool than the 28-90R. 

 

Also expecting a large dental implants bill soon - so now also considering selling my MM and M lenses and the 28-90R to fund everything.

 

I've noticed that 28-90R lenses are 'sticking' on dealers' shelves at the prices listed but the 280/4R is not - so also wondering if now might be the best time to sell the 280/4R i.e. before the expected 90-280mm SL lens lessens demand? 

 

Decisions, decisions … 

 

dunk

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I've noticed that 28-90R lenses are 'sticking' on dealers' shelves at the prices listed but the 280/4R is not - so also wondering if now might be the best time to sell the 280/4R i.e. before the expected 90-280mm SL lens lessens demand? 

 

The nicer R lenses are moving off the shelves, but at about 20-30% below the list prices.  EBay auctions and "best offer" deals and "black friday" deals at KEH are clearing at that level.  If you want the extra function of the AF zoom, now is the time to part with the 280/4.  But I bet it will feel sad.

 

scott

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The nicer R lenses are moving off the shelves, but at about 20-30% below the list prices.  EBay auctions and "best offer" deals and "black friday" deals at KEH are clearing at that level.  If you want the extra function of the AF zoom, now is the time to part with the 280/4.  But I bet it will feel sad.

 

scott

 

Yes I'm sure you're right and parting will be difficult.

 

Thus, "Decisions … painful decisions" … :)   

 

The day of reckoning is nigh.

 

dunk

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The nicer R lenses are moving off the shelves, but at about 20-30% below the list prices.  EBay auctions and "best offer" deals and "black friday" deals at KEH are clearing at that level.  If you want the extra function of the AF zoom, now is the time to part with the 280/4.  But I bet it will feel sad.

 

 

Below what list prices? R lenses have been discontinued for some years now, so are you talking about the inflated prices dealers have held them at NOS, or whatever listed price for used gear the dealers wanted, or ...?

 

Given the prices I paid for my R lenses, I'm glad I bought when I did ... Looking them up in the past few weeks, all the prices I see are higher than what I paid, for some by as much as double.

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By list prices I mean the prices that are listed on the web.  You're right that in some cases, the dealers are using the last price for which Leica sold these lenses.  By buying at a time when no one really know what they could be used for (DMR holdouts, maybe?) you saved a lot.  That changed when the M[240] came on the market.  But If Leica had been making and selling them all along, the prices would have climbed steadily, as M prices have done.

 

scott

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By list prices I mean the prices that are listed on the web.  You're right that in some cases, the dealers are using the last price for which Leica sold these lenses.  By buying at a time when no one really know what they could be used for (DMR holdouts, maybe?) you saved a lot.  That changed when the M[240] came on the market.  But If Leica had been making and selling them all along, the prices would have climbed steadily, as M prices have done.

 

Yes ... I couldn't afford Leica R lenses when they were selling new. Leica discontinuing the line made them affordable for me. I'm glad I took the leap of faith... 

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Yes ... I couldn't afford Leica R lenses when they were selling new. Leica discontinuing the line made them affordable for me. I'm glad I took the leap of faith... 

 

 

I am so glad I didn't sold them. They are my first motivation to buy the SL. The second one are my M lenses.

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Apart from the colour quality question, prospective SL buyers who own a DMR also have to consider their DMR's trade in value. I have a DMR but realistically, doubt if would realise more than £650 plus whatever the R9 or R8 would add to the value.

 

Why only £650 ? Because demand is likely to be even less now that both the SL and the M240 offer FF R solutions … and not forgetting that the Sony FF mirrorless offerings too have eaten into DMR demand. 

 

If I decide to acquire an SL I'd be tempted to keep the DMR as a back-up camera - especially if a DMR dealer commission sale risks it sitting on a dealer's shelf for months … if a dealer is prepared to list it. Then again, everything has a price at which it might sell quickly - and I might persuade myself to take the hit and list it myself on TLF Buy and Sell at a knock down price. 

 

When first considering the SL I thought that a body only would suffice as I have a comprehensive set of R focal lengths including the 28-90mm - but now I'm reading all the praises of the 24-90mm - and realise its fast AF and IQ probably make it a much better tool than the 28-90R. 

 

Also expecting a large dental implants bill soon - so now also considering selling my MM and M lenses and the 28-90R to fund everything.

 

I've noticed that 28-90R lenses are 'sticking' on dealers' shelves at the prices listed but the 280/4R is not - so also wondering if now might be the best time to sell the 280/4R i.e. before the expected 90-280mm SL lens lessens demand? 

 

Decisions, decisions … 

 

dunk

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I wouldn't hurry to part with the 280/4R yet since no one knows (except Leica) where the sweet pot of the new 90-280L is.

It's at 90 or 280mm ??? or if this lens will be sofware corrected or not...but either way, it's a T-Mount which can be used only on the SL!

The 280/4R is one of the best (if not the best) in the R-Line which can be used (with an adapter) on SL-M-CaNikSony etc...

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Yes I'm sure you're right and parting will be difficult.

 

Thus, "Decisions … painful decisions" … :)   

 

The day of reckoning is nigh.

 

dunk

 

 

 

From what I've seen on the forum, the new SL lens is superior to almost anything else on the SL in its focal range, and when you factor in its AF performance, I can't imagine any SL owner surviving for long without an SL lens.

 

Of course I could be wrong, and the forum is far from the ideal way to judge how lenses compare with each other.  But I imagine I'm right (as I always do!).

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I wouldn't hurry to part with the 280/4R yet since no one knows (except Leica) where the sweet pot of the new 90-280L is.

It's at 90 or 280mm ??? or if this lens will be sofware corrected or not...but either way, it's a T-Mount which can be used only on the SL!

The 280/4R is one of the best (if not the best) in the R-Line which can be used (with an adapter) on SL-M-CaNikSony etc...

 

The 90-280mm is likely to have been designed by the Peter Karbe team - the same team responsible for the 280/4 R, the 28-90 R and the 24-90 SL lenses; they do not design lemon optics; all their lenses perform superbly throughout their aperture and zoom ranges. It's the AF aspect and potential of the 90-280mm which appeals to me … and I would not be surprised if its MTF curves are a more than a match for the 80-200 R, 105-280 R and 280/4 R lenses - each of which were designed in the early to mid-1990s. Lens design technology and available glass types have moved on considerably in the last 15 years … and with Leica's 'no compromises' philosophy we can surely expect something really special with the AF 90-280mm SL lens. 

 

dunk

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