lct Posted November 22, 2015 Share #341 Posted November 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Had it be the only digital M available, i would have ordered the M262 without hesitation in 2003. Now i don't use much the EVF of my M240 but i would miss it for my R lenses and for occasions where i need precise framing so if i were after a cheaper M, i would prefer a second hand M240 most probably. YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Hi lct, Take a look here Leica M (Typ 262) - Reduction to Rangefinder Photography (at 1000 € less). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Paulus Posted November 22, 2015 Share #342 Posted November 22, 2015 But the good news is it's never been so affordable to get into the Leica digital system. M9 is a fantastic camera and now around 2200. M8 for little over a grand. 50 lux for 2300. I see FLEs for 3400. Both MM and 240 are diving under 4k. Or less. I saw a M240 +EVF today with summicron asph 35mm for € 5000,- Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted November 22, 2015 Share #343 Posted November 22, 2015 The big country town of Canberra!....welcome to (the edge of) the Monaro, lots of photo ops here if you are interested in landscapes...and the climate is better than Melbourne Haven't been here long, still getting to know the place but I'm liking what I see here so far. Never heard of Monaro until you mentioned it, looks like a beautiful region on google! Will hopefully sightsee a bit after I settle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey You Posted November 22, 2015 Share #344 Posted November 22, 2015 This new model has two fewer holes in the body - one for the video button, and another for the live view button. Removing them probably improves the camera's soundproofing. Perhaps this explains the quieter shutter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 22, 2015 Share #345 Posted November 22, 2015 This new model has two fewer holes in the body - one for the video button, and another for the live view button. Removing them probably improves the camera's soundproofing. The live view button wasn’t removed; it is now a white balance button. Perhaps this explains the quieter shutter? No, the explanation is a quieter shutter. ;-) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted November 22, 2015 Share #346 Posted November 22, 2015 I curious: how do they choose the 'naming' conventions leading to the sequence M240, 246 and now 262? There's no apparent logic to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 22, 2015 Share #347 Posted November 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Look around for a thread that discussed the string M-E[262] and you will find one explanation for that number. scott 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted November 22, 2015 Share #348 Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Can you expand on this? Sure, anecdotally, we having been hearing about quality issues in Sony native lenses for the A7 from day one with lenses like the FE 35/2.8, which if you have a good one, is the best current landscape 35 for the A7 series, still. Stories of decentering abound. Mingthien: "The 1.8/55 can be very impressive if you get a good copy; I’ve had to test six to find one though." Of course we all know copy variation exists in most lenses, Leica included, with plenty on accounts here on the subject. So the question really has been, are the Sony Zeiss lenses worse than usual? A pretty compelling case they are worse was made this fall by Roger at Lensrentals, who is testing E mount lenses on his optical bench, and has plenty of copies of all sorts of lenses: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/10/sony-e-mount-lens-sharpness-bench-tests A careful read of this blog is a real eye-opener, and makes plain the Sony/Zeiss lenses are simply not well made by industry standards. The FE 35/1.4 and 90/2.8 are all over the place. He does not test everything there, but we often hear reports of variation in the 1635 as well, the only better than OK zoom available for the camera. This really is relevant to many potential Leica users as the A7 and M262 with lenses are about the same size, and the only FF options in this footprint. I moved to the M9 from A7 because of image quality issues in the stock camera, which is meh with most non-natives. But later the Kolari option became available, where the thick Sony cover glass is stripped, and the camera really will shoot many Leica wides, like the SEM 21, very well. So now I have two bodies which give me great image quality with LTM and M lenses, the M9 and A7.mod, which incidentally improves performance with all film lenses. The bottomline: the A7 might have been the "interchangable Q" many wish for, but foolish decisions prevented that: Sensor Cover thickness in milimeters: M8 .5 M9/240 .8 (Leica stats are estimates) D800 1.1 5D 1.2 A7x 1.9 Kolari mod .08 (These are confirmed by Kolari, who is changing filter stacks all the time) No, I don't work for Kolari I think some part of the fall in used M lens prices has been unloading by people who went to the Sony and found the lenses just did not do very well on the cameras. I know of many lenses which went on the market for exactly this reason. Now these poor people must deal with the Sony native copy variation, which again, is a scandal. Edited November 22, 2015 by uhoh7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted November 22, 2015 Share #349 Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) From a functional perspective, it's just the more refined, 24 mp version of the M9. I suppose the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta is just a more refined Model T Ford. Edited November 22, 2015 by AAK Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 22, 2015 Share #350 Posted November 22, 2015 I suppose the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta is just a more refined Model T Ford. How does that comparison work? They both have 4 wheels? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 22, 2015 Share #351 Posted November 22, 2015 Re-cock, not shutter sound per se....but, yes, someone will mic it up. Even so, nothing will compare to using and listening in person. When I took my M8.2 to the dealer and played with the M240, the difference was clearer than the video/audio reviews. Jeff The M8/9 had 2 distinct sounds (the recock could be delayed using Discrete mode) but the M240 doesn't. At this point Leica hasn't said if the 262 uses the same shutter as the 240 or a different one. Nor have they clarified if they are claiming it's quieter in standard mode or only in comparison to using LV or advanced metering on the 240 where the shutter actuates twice in rapid succession. It also wouldn't surprise me if the aluminum top plate alters the shutter sound a bit, although intuitively I would imagine the thicker brass, especially in black paint, would attenuate it more than anodized aluminum. Then again my black 240 and chrome 240 sound identical. The only thing I'm willing to go out on a limb and predict at this point is that whoever buys a 262 will definitely hear a quieter shutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 22, 2015 Share #352 Posted November 22, 2015 Look around for a thread that discussed the string M-E[262] and you will find one explanation for that number. scott Wasn't the ME262 a breakthrough jet aircraft by Messerschmidt in WWII? I thought I'd seen that string of letters and numbers before... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 22, 2015 Share #353 Posted November 22, 2015 I curious: how do they choose the 'naming' conventions leading to the sequence M240, 246 and now 262? There's no apparent logic to it. Of course there isn’t. It is just a meaningless number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted November 22, 2015 Share #354 Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Wasn't the ME262 a breakthrough jet aircraft by Messerschmidt in WWII? I thought I'd seen that string of letters and numbers before... https://www.google.nl/search?q=messerschmitt+me+262+flugzeugmodell&tbm=isch&imgil=FVsXszCmuaGK7M%253A%253B_0MmkJwz0k6WrM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.1001modellbau.de%25252Fflugzeugmodelle%25252F105383-messerschmitt-me-262-.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=FVsXszCmuaGK7M%253A%252C_0MmkJwz0k6WrM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=671&usg=__CgGlMoqb846yy2IcvBgzx3UIIk4%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiA1sHd0aTJAhXHLw8KHdNRAvAQyjcIJw&ei=gAZSVoCWB8ffPNOjiYAP#imgrc=FVsXszCmuaGK7M%3A&usg=__CgGlMoqb846yy2IcvBgzx3UIIk4%3D a fast coincedence... don't mention the war... Edited November 22, 2015 by Paulus 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 22, 2015 Share #355 Posted November 22, 2015 They also revamped the calibration procedure for the M (Typ 240) but I suspect that doesn’t apply to the M (Typ 262) as the new calibration method relies on live-view. You really think Leica has no way to enable Live View on the M262 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 22, 2015 Share #356 Posted November 22, 2015 From a functional perspective, it's just the more refined, 24 mp version of the M9. Same way as the Canon 1Dx is the reflex version of the M9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 22, 2015 Share #357 Posted November 22, 2015 Except in reality it's the M240-E. And the E stands for Eunuch Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 22, 2015 Share #358 Posted November 22, 2015 You really think Leica has no way to enable Live View on the M262 ? There is not even an interface to access the live view data. Maybe if they dismantle it completely so they get access to the motherboard … Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted November 22, 2015 Share #359 Posted November 22, 2015 Don't real Leica shooters use the rangefinder? Who cares about live view anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 22, 2015 Share #360 Posted November 22, 2015 There is not even an interface to access the live view data. Maybe if they dismantle it completely so they get access to the motherboard … I'm a bit skeptical. Apparently they simplified the user menus, leaving no way to set up live view or video. That is a very simple and quick path, which does not require eliminating any of the underlying software (or hardware) since users will not use them. But there may be test interfaces, not documented with the menus, to do this, just as there are test interfaces to existing M cameras. And if liveview is useful in the manufacturing steps, why not include it? scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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