ramarren Posted November 18, 2015 Share #161 Posted November 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) If someone has a section or passage of the English manual that doesn't make sense to them, post it here and I'll do my best to make sense of the German version and post a translation. I read both English and German. The instruction manual is a good reference effort in either language. The problem with it is that it's not a very good teaching/learning experience—it does not replace a properly written guide, in my opinion. It's most useful after you already understand how to operate the camera and are looking for that detail which you've forgotten, like most reference material. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Hi ramarren, Take a look here M lens performance on the SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter H Posted November 18, 2015 Share #162 Posted November 18, 2015 This is a matter of focusing technique and practice rather than any in-built requirement of ground glass focusing systems. I never go back and forth hunting for the point of sharpest focus because I've trained my eyes and my hand to see that point when I reach it and just stop. RF focusing precision is easier in the limited range of focal lengths that the rangefinder can address with adequate accuracy, but there's never been a resolution to the 60+ year long debate over which is faster in the hands of an expert user of either. I think you're right, but for a good number of years now I've heard it repeated so often that I'd started to believe it myself. I can generally focus faster with my M than with any other non-AF camera (and many AF cameras) but I've always believed it was a matter of personal technique and practice, which I think you confirm. Interesting to see how many of the M virtues seem to be evaporating, or at least under challenge at the moment! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 18, 2015 Share #163 Posted November 18, 2015 Focusing with the EVF without any additional aids will show a particular kind of crispnesss which is quite striking. That, however, depends on the subject, the lens, your eyesight and the steadyness of your hands. I don't see any of the virtues of the M evaporating for a while. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 18, 2015 Share #164 Posted November 18, 2015 Focusing with the EVF without any additional aids will show a particular kind of crispnesss which is quite striking. That, however, depends on the subject, the lens, your eyesight and the steadyness of your hands. I don't see any of the virtues of the M evaporating for a while. With failing eyesight a good EVF and IBIS will be your friend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 18, 2015 Share #165 Posted November 18, 2015 With failing eyesight a good EVF and IBIS will be your friend. Depends on the kind of failure you experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 18, 2015 Share #166 Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Focusing with the EVF without any additional aids will show a particular kind of crispnesss which is quite striking. That, however, depends on the subject, the lens, your eyesight and the steadyness of your hands. I don't see any of the virtues of the M evaporating for a while. With failing eyesight a good EVF and IBIS will be your friend. Hmm I don't think there is any substitute for practice - both with rangefinders and with the EVF on mirrorless cameras. I remember talking to Herbert Piel about practicing focusing with rangefinders in the kitchen and how our wives both laughed at us for just snapping away in the evening with the M to keep in practice. I think focusing with the SL (or the T or the EM-1 or the A7) is just the same - focusing aids can actually be a distraction (focus peaking is more interested in contrast than what is actually in focus). Whilst I understand others have worse problems, I have a developing cataract in my focusing eye . . . . and I still find it no problem focusing the M . . or the SL without zooming or focus peaking (or IBIS) Edited November 18, 2015 by jonoslack 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 18, 2015 Share #167 Posted November 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) ................. I don't see any of the virtues of the M evaporating for a while. We'll see. Some people have gone to lengths to explain that the SL lenses are not actually large providing you compare them with other large lenses, and that in fact they feel so good in the hand, and perform so well, that you have to wonder what all the fuss over those tiny M lenses that can't even focus themselves was all about. The human brain is an immensely flexible thing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share #168 Posted November 18, 2015 Cognitive dissonance 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 18, 2015 Share #169 Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Cognitive dissonanceIt gets everywhere doesn't it? With its twin, confirmation bias, no one is safe. Edited November 18, 2015 by Peter H 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 18, 2015 Share #170 Posted November 18, 2015 Cognitive dissonance I'm an expert . . but a poor memory makes it fit very comfortably Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th colour Posted November 18, 2015 Share #171 Posted November 18, 2015 It gets everywhere doesn't it? With its twin, confirmation bias, no one is safe. Indeed. The staple fodder for the Dark Triad. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted November 19, 2015 Share #172 Posted November 19, 2015 Hmm I don't think there is any substitute for practice - both with rangefinders and with the EVF on mirrorless cameras. I remember talking to Herbert Piel about practicing focusing with rangefinders in the kitchen and how our wives both laughed at us for just snapping away in the evening with the M to keep in practice. This is so helpful! My wife more than laughs about my constant focus practice, and I no longer try to explain that different approaches to matching the M patch are necessary for different lenses... but now I have allies! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 19, 2015 Share #173 Posted November 19, 2015 I have not tried the SL yet but my experience with other excellent EVF is that it is as inaccurate as with manual focusing on the ground glass of a DSLR. Manual focusing requires focusing aids, be it a rangefinder patch, or a microprism/split image on a focusing screen, or image magnification with an EVF. Failing to have that, AF is your friend in my opinion. That's why my main interest in the SL is AF lenses not M, which I can focus faster and more accurately on an M body. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share #174 Posted November 19, 2015 I have not tried the SL yet but my experience with other excellent EVF is that it is as inaccurate as with manual focusing on the ground glass of a DSLR. Manual focusing requires focusing aids, be it a rangefinder patch, or a microprism/split image on a focusing screen, or image magnification with an EVF. Failing to have that, AF is your friend in my opinion. That's why my main interest in the SL is AF lenses not M, which I can focus faster and more accurately on an M body. I look forward to hearing your experience once you have tried the SL in person. Those who have (particularly Jono and others here) seem to suggest that focussing using the EVF without focussing aids is very accurate. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted November 19, 2015 Share #175 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) I am having no issues focusing my M lenses using the EVF on the SL with or without the aids. Honestly I prefer to not use them as I am just as fast as my rangefinder and the results are as good. Edited November 19, 2015 by digitalfx 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 19, 2015 Share #176 Posted November 19, 2015 Well, that would be excellent news. Can't wait to try it for myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompoes Posted November 19, 2015 Share #177 Posted November 19, 2015 I used the SL in Wetzlar using the 28 mm elmarit and was unable to focus accurately without magnification.Assume that it easier with a 35 mm or 50 mm lens. The button to initiate magnification is the LB button and as such not in a convenient location. I liked the SL very much and hope that automatic magnification can be implemented similar to the Sony A7 Loxia configuration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted November 19, 2015 Share #178 Posted November 19, 2015 Some further ramblings; I was really surprised by the high performance of this camera! I see no issues with the price compared to similar products; Top Pro cameras.The diopter adjustment dial is smooth and,,, it just works.Battery doesn't drop completely out when you tip the release leaver, you need to give it an extra small push to get it fully out, very well thought out.Weather sealing is really cleverly designed, and the door for SD and connections are very well sealed and looks durable in use.Full size HDMI for the video guys and standard screw thread flash sync plug.This camera can do all the stuff I can think of... Except there is no AFS adapter for all of my Nikkors and I don't know if there will ever bee one...I can only use MF via; Nikon F to Leica M-mount adapter on the 'Leica M Adapter T' Anyway - I have decided not to buy it, I'll wait and see how the new Leica M will look like, I still love the simplicity of the Leica M system. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted November 19, 2015 Share #179 Posted November 19, 2015 Regarding VR and or IBIS For me these are not so important at all, it's only useful in very few cases for my type of photography, for me it's much better to freeze the motion with a short shutter speed, pan along the path of the subject or use a tripod/monopod. I have seen many 'unpredictable' results using VR the reason as far as I can tell is that; when you 'shake' the camera and the VR actively compensates this movement to keep the in-focus motif steady within the image, the back and/or fore-ground will/can move within the frame... It takes the VR system some time to 'kick in' - I don't know how long time it is for the SL and Vario Elmar 24-90 to perform this initial kick in... Sure it can come in handy for some applications especially long lenses >300mm but it's not something I would recommend to have switched On all the time on wider/normal lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 19, 2015 Share #180 Posted November 19, 2015 I used the SL in Wetzlar using the 28 mm elmarit and was unable to focus accurately without magnification. Assume that it easier with a 35 mm or 50 mm lens. The button to initiate magnification is the LB button and as such not in a convenient location. I liked the SL very much and hope that automatic magnification can be implemented similar to the Sony A7 Loxia configuration. I'm sure it will be. It seems most (all?) of the other reasonably modern mirrorless cameras do it, some of them quite brilliantly, so I'm sure Leica is capable of it. Even the M can do it with its medieval EVF, so it can't be long before the SL catches up... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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