M lens performance on the SL

[mmradman]

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 I come from a very similar background. I use Nikon system D4s and D810 now. I have the Leica M system for personal use. So real valuable information for me.   Thanks a bunch, for taking time to post your impression and images.

English is not my first language but i don't think you really meant to say "thanks a bunch".  I found Erik's post exactly type of information we are looking for.

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thanks_a_bunch

[ramarren]

I still want to see a photo or photos taken with the 18 SEM on the SL or am I going to have to wait until my SL gets from Wetzlar up to Ffordes in the north of Scotland and then back down to me 

 

Wish I could oblige, but all I have to offer is the Elmar-M 24/3.8 ASPH and Elmarit-R 19mm f/2.8 v1 on the SL. I'll try to get a few photos made with them today. :-)

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[ramarren]

English is not my first language but i don't think you really meant to say "thanks a bunch".  I found Erik's post exactly type of information we are looking for.

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thanks_a_bunch

 

OT - English Grammar-Usage note: "thanks a bunch" can be a sarcastically intended thank you, but it can also be an unsarcastic "thanks a lot" ... depends on intonation and context. Between friends, I often use "thanks a bunch" or "thanks bunches" (even looser) to mean genuinely "thank you very much", but inflect it just a little off and it means "thanks for nothing", a sarcastic retort usually used when we're bantering about something. 

 

Because of the ambiguities, I rarely use the expression in written prose. That said, I took sven's use as the genuine "thank you very much!" as that seemed the appropriate intent in context. :-)

 

And now, back to the regularly scheduled SL discussion.

[IkarusJohn]

Thank you Erik. Really helpful hands on review - a nice alternative to the fruit and vegetable man (sorry Sean, but sometimes those sorts of descriptions are useful), and waaay better than Huff 'n' Puff's BEST SONY CAMERA EVER!

 

Cheers

John

[scott kirkpatrick]

I still want to see a photo or photos taken with the 18 SEM on the SL or am I going to have to wait until my SL gets from Wetzlar up to Ffordes in the north of Scotland and then back down to me 

 

Wilson

Have the 18 SEM, but only hoping to get my hands on an SL around Dec 8, when I will have wide expanses of desert to shoot.  If FFfordes comes through before then, I'll be interested in what you see.  

 

Does anyone have the (Schneider-designed) Elmarit - R 15?

 

scott

[svenjosh]

English is not my first language but i don't think you really meant to say "thanks a bunch".  I found Erik's post exactly type of information we are looking for.

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thanks_a_bunch

 

English is not my first language either. I offered my sincere thanks for his post.

[tenmangu81]

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I travel a lot and like to use laptops. I currently have the fastest Retina display Mac with the largest SSD and the most RAM I could buy ....... And Lightroom is still too slow - even with 24mp files, the S007 files were excruciating!

Go to Capture One !!

But I agree with you, 24 Mpx are largely enough.

[ramarren]

Okay ... 

 

I have LR 6.1.1 importing a full aperture complement of test exposures done with SL on tripod and a standardized target using 

 

24-90 zoom

Elmarit-R 19 v1

Elmarit-R 24

Summicron-R 35

Summilux-R 50

Summicron-R 90

Elmar-M 24 ASPH

Summarit-M 75/2.4

Summilux 35 v2

 

Whew. Lens testing is exhausting. I intend to just meander through these to see if anything looks very surprising, very bad, or very odd, and call myself done with testing. 

 

BTW: Firing the SL shutter a bazillion times like this is making me swoon over it. It has the nicest, sweetest little "snick" sound ... I don't want to offend anyone by comparing it to their favorite other camera, but it is without a doubt the nicest sounding shutter I've worked with in any camera; it makes some cameras of recent memory sound like a garbage scow drawn up to the dock where the shutter is a half-empty trash can tossed from the second deck to the dock. 

[ramarren]

About 30 minutes of looking at center, corner, edge, etc., and comparing cross-wise between different lenses .... 

 

24-90 zoom @ 24, 28, 35, 50, 75, 90 settings

Elmarit-R 19 v1 

Elmarit-R 24

Elmar-M 24 ASPH

Summicron-R 35

Summilux-R 50

Summicron-R 90

Summarit-M 75/2.4

Summilux 35 v2

 

To first order approximation, if I had to give you a general rule, take *any* of these lenses, set the aperture to f/5.6-f/8, and just go shoot. You won't easily tell the difference between any of them. Take as a given that f/8 works close to best with any of these lenses. :-)

 

With a little more depth than that ... I looked specifically at the in-camera JPEGs to see the effects of the lens code corrections on the without the complexity of wondering what LR's processing might have done, etc. My exposures were made at whatever passed for "wide open" and then at marked stops from f/4 to as stopped down as you can get. 

 

I looked at

• Elmarit-19 by itself and compared to its performance on the M-P
• 24-90 compared to the Elmar-M 24 and Elmarit-R 24, and the two primes compared to each other
• 24-90 compared to the 'Lux 50
• 24-90 compared to the 'Rit 75
• 24-90 compared to the 'Lux 35 v2 and Summicron-R 35

19:

 

The performance on the SL is very very good, just the typical lens character showing through that I remember from the exposures I made on film. On the M-P, with a Kipon adapter, the corners had hard vignetting which is gone on both the M-P and the SL with the R Adapter M. On the M-P, the corners again were a bit soft until f/5.6, while on the SL they're only slightly soft wide open, and get progressively better. 

 

24: 

 

The Elmar-M corners are slightly softer than the Elmarit-R or SL, until f/5.6. No smearing, just a bit of softness. After that, it's hard to tell them apart. The SL lens is very closely matched to the Elmarit-R lens all the way through, if not slightly better.  

 

35: 

 

The SL lens is outstandingly clean from wide open to fully stopped down. The Summicron-R 35 v2 is right there with it, almost identical stop for stop. The Mandler 'Lux 35 v2 shows vast differences from wide open to f/2.8 when it settles down. Wide open, the 'Lux is soft and dreamy everywhere other than right on center and brightness falls off between 1-3 EV in the corners. That cleans up quite a lot at f/2, and it becomes almost even across the board at f/2.8. Then it gets sharper and sharper everywhere until f/8 ... 

 

If you want clean, modern imaging, the SL or 'Cron-R are the way to go. If you love a lens full of flaws and character, that changes in an instant by turning the aperture ring, the 'Lux 35 v2 is wonderful. I'll never let it go. :-)

 

50: 

 

Between the SL @ 50 and the 'Lux is much like the 'Lux 35 v2 behavior but to a lesser degree. The SL is the technically better choice, the 'Lux is the more soulful wide open and at f/2. By f/4 I can hardly tell them apart. By f/8, I cannot. 

 

75: 

 

Not surprisingly, there is so little difference between these two modern lenses at 75mm, it's hardly worth thinking about. Both do well anywhere. 

 

90: 

 

The 'Cron 90 is slightly better performing most of the way through the aperture range, although its performance varies more with a bit more "glow" and softness (veiling flare? I guess) when open wide and evens out more as it stops down. The SL @ 90 is a little softer at corners and edges, picks up some as its stopped down. It's a toss up to me. 

 

I didn't look at bokeh or any other characteristics. Just wanted to get a feel for them. I'm confident that all of these lenses will produce lovely photos used on the SL, and that's good enough for me. They're all slightly different, and at different aperture settings, and that's exactly what I was hoping for. 

 

The SL fitted with adapters and the Macro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 is on the table next to me. It's like having a slimmed-down-to-look-at, digital version of the R8 ready to go. :-)

Edited November 17, 2015 by ramarren

[digitalfx]

You should install LR 6.3 update which has new SL Profile

[ramarren]

You should install LR 6.3 update which has new SL Profile

 

In process ... I went for a walk and took the camera along with the macro on it. 

I understand more now. :-)

[digitalfx]

please tell us...im still trying to read the damn manual. With all the new money from the SL, can Leica please hire an english copy writer for the manuals?

[dgktkr]

please tell us...im still trying to read the damn manual. With all the new money from the SL, can Leica please hire an english copy writer for the manuals?

 

Bitte, lassen Sie uns wissen was nicht verständlich ist!

[ramarren]

The instruction manual is fairly complete as a reference document, but it is a terrible learning experience. I've read it cover to cover several times, and I'm still learning how to use the SL. I'm learning by leaps and bounds now that I have the camera in my hands.

 

That's why I have a Leica SL Guide now blocked out into a preliminary outline. I am a technical writer in my other life ... 

[digitalfx]

 

That's why I have a Leica SL Guide now blocked out into a preliminary outline. I am a technical writer in my other life ... 

 

do you need a proof reader

[ramarren]

do you need a proof reader

 

At the point when I hit the beta draft... Right now, it's a working outline into which I'm assembling notes and ideas, a pre-alpha sketch. I'm still in the research and developmental phase (basically, learn the camera well enough to understand what to write) ... Which is why I was so keen to get a camera in my hands as quickly as possible. 

 

Unlike at at my real job, I don't have access to the engineers and prototypes that I can ask questions of and test things out on. Makes it hard to write a guide until you have the product in hand. 

[a911s]

About 30 minutes of looking at center, corner, edge, etc., and comparing cross-wise between different lenses .... 

 

Thanks for that synopsis. I'll be using my R lenses with it, so that is very helpful. I handled the new SL at my local Leica Store yesterday, and I was very impressed. I thought the Noctilux .95 was especially well-balanced on it.

 

Leica has produced a 35mm non-rangefinder camera that can truly be labeled as "professional" (except for the current lack of image stabilization). In addition it has a great viewfinder that is ahead of the competition. Congrats!

[dgktkr]

Bitte, lassen Sie uns wissen was nicht verständlich ist!

 

If someone has a section or passage of the English manual that doesn't make sense to them, post it here and I'll do my best to make sense of the German version and post a translation.

 

dgktkr

[Peter H]

One of the great virtues of the RF focussing system was that when you reach alignment, you know you're in focus so you don't have to do the SLR thing of going beyond the point and back again to satisfy yourself that you've got it spot-on.

 

Has the SL's superb-sounding EVF overcome this slight but  sometimes significant disadvantage when using MF lenses with a DSL camera? 

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Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ramarren]

One of the great virtues of the RF focussing system was that when you reach alignment, you know you're in focus so you don't have to do the SLR thing of going beyond the point and back again to satisfy yourself that you've got it spot-on.

 

Has the SL's superb-sounding EVF overcome this slight but  sometimes significant disadvantage when using MF lenses with a DSL camera? 

 

This is a matter of focusing technique and practice rather than any in-built requirement of ground glass focusing systems. I never go back and forth hunting for the point of sharpest focus because I've trained my eyes and my hand to see that point when I reach it and just stop. 

 

RF focusing precision is easier in the limited range of focal lengths that the rangefinder can address with adequate accuracy, but there's never been a resolution to the 60+ year long debate over which is faster in the hands of an expert user of either.