M lens performance on the SL

[lct]

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Vignetting can be corrected in PP. Serious issues are smearing and color shift IMO. Would be interesting to know if the Kolari mod brings significant improvements on difficult lenses like 28/2 and 35/2 asph, i mean Leica lenses of course.

[jonoslack]

Hi Jono, you should visit here sometime.

On a clear day you can see for one hundred km. :-)

That should be enough distance for infinity shots.

HI Karl-Heinz - we get nice clear skies here as well, but it's a bit flat! 

Climbing a church tower is a possibility - but the local one is pretty dodgy, even without a tripod and a bag of lenses!

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[ramarren]

maybe I will test the Skink pinhole first. 

[hiepphotog]

Vignetting can be corrected in PP. Serious issues are smearing and color shift IMO. Would be interesting to know if the Kolari mod brings significant improvements on difficult lenses like 28/2 and 35/2 asph, i mean Leica lenses of course.

 

Have you looked at the FM thread that K-H linked to? After the mod, I would rate the Cron 35 ASPH as 3 at WO using the same scale here. The Cron 28 ASPH would be a 2 (if corner-focus) and 1 (if center-focus). 

[LocalHero1953]

Have you looked at the FM thread that K-H linked to? After the mod, I would rate the Cron 35 ASPH as 3 at WO using the same scale here. The Cron 28 ASPH would be a 2 (if corner-focus) and 1 (if center-focus). 

Without wishing to denigrate your work, or the Sony bodies that you worked on, perhaps that is a bit OT unless you compared them also to the SL? Perhaps on the Sony A7 thread?

 

As a future SL owner, however, I am keen to know more about M (and other) lenses on the SL.

[lct]

Yes it is the SL forum here. I should not have asked my question sorry.

[svenjosh]

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Have done many careful tests myself at infinity and seeing results from Zeiss MTF, Jim Kasson and Lloyd Chambers, I am not sure I would believe that the A7 can't match the M240 in the center with the Lux 50. Even before the mod, they should be very close; the difference is in the AA filter.

 

Brian Caldwell (brilliant optician himself) and Roger Cicala already showed the strong effect of stack thickness in the past. Going past that, microlens array's difference can only account for the micrometer scale difference, which might be picked up on an optical bench but not likely on simple visual check. Lastly, after the mod, the total stack thickness on the Kolari mod is still slightly thicker than most M digital (0.8mm + 0.5mm = 1.3mm). From hearsay, the M240 has a 1mm stack. I imagine this SL has aroundn 1.2-1.3mm to have better IR rejection, more durable, and somewhat more compatible with the old T lenses.

 

Edit: FWIW, both the A7S/II and A7RII are better than any Leica M digital at handling vignetting and color cast. Of course, on the other hand, smearing (can't be fixed in post) can be a problem on Sony body, pre or post mod.

 

I own a Sony a7rii and I have used a kolari mod version. I have my 50 summilux. I have the M240. I believe my own results than looking at MTFs or looking at people's blog whom I don't know about. I think that you would agree that you should trust your own results than look at some anonymous blogger's conclusion. I think it's common sense. Let me repeat what I know is true, even in the center the Sony A7rii cannot touch a Leica M240 when using the Lux 50. 

 

FWIW, Lloyd chambers has taken a very harsh stance against Leica. I do not agree with or value any of his opinions as far as Leica is concerned.

 

what a lofty statement that "Sony is better than any Leica M", lol. As long as, spouting such unsubstantiated theory makes you happy, have fun.

 

Sven

[hiepphotog]

I own a Sony a7rii and I have used a kolari mod version. I have my 50 summilux. I have the M240. I believe my own results than looking at MTFs or looking at people's blog whom I don't know about. I think that you would agree that you should trust your own results than look at some anonymous blogger's conclusion. I think it's common sense. Let me repeat what I know is true, even in the center the Sony A7rii cannot touch a Leica M240 when using the Lux 50. 

 

FWIW, Lloyd chambers has taken a very harsh stance against Leica. I do not agree with or value any of his opinions as far as Leica is concerned.

 

what a lofty statement that "Sony is better than any Leica M", lol. As long as, spouting such unsubstantiated theory makes you happy, have fun.

 

Sven

 

Sven, this is an SL thread so I shall not carry this conversation any further. But your spouting is not different from my spouting, unsubstantiated, though you conveniently quoted part of what I am saying (way to take things out of context). If you need proof, I would gladly provide that. Otherwise, let's leave it at that.

[k-hawinkler]

Yes it is the SL forum here. I should not have asked my question sorry.

 

Apologies accepted. Thanks. :-)

[svenjosh]

Sven, this is an SL thread so I shall not carry this conversation any further. But your spouting is not different from my spouting, unsubstantiated, though you conveniently quoted part of what I am saying (way to take things out of context). If you need proof, I would gladly provide that. Otherwise, let's leave it at that.

Substantiation: I have all the camera and lenses and I tested, came to a conclusion. That's me. I did not thrust my view on others. I did go to Sony forums and post these.

 

Unsubstantiated arm chair expert: I do not have the SL or M240 but Sony is better than any of those because .....fill in some bs. That's you.

 

I never took anything out of context. But you come in a SL thread and spew your theories. You are comparing thighslappers photos to something that you shot in your Sony and say Sony is better. Example of unsubstantiated bs.

 

You directly quoted me so I am replying to your ......

[pop]

... and that will be enough, I think.

[wlaidlaw]

I still want to see a photo or photos taken with the 18 SEM on the SL or am I going to have to wait until my SL gets from Wetzlar up to Ffordes in the north of Scotland and then back down to me 

 

Wilson

[Erik Gunst Lund]

Time for some hands on although the weather this afternoon was pouring the light in the Copenhagen Leica Store was quite ok for some first impressions - SL is a really nice camera!

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View finder

Amazing, after a short while it felt like looking through any Pro DSLR view finder including red outlines along all sharp edges for focus aid this is a huge leap in technology for view finders. also with the lens stopped down all seems to be clear and bright.
For this to work the camera need contrast and sharpness in a ample amount;

Leica M-Lenses

Full support via a short adapter that relays basic data about the lens in use, the SL guess the aperture like the Leica M cameras via a small sensor on the camera body compared with the light through the lens.

Normal and tele

With the 50mm 1,4 and Tele 70mm 2.4 lenses wide open only a very limited amount of an image get the red outlines due to the very slim depth of focus. so it's very easy to nail focus quickly actually very Range Finder like focusing is possible.
Except that 'good' light is required for this to work the camera need crispness for contrast, the store light was not enough to do an indoor portrait at all...

As you stop the lens down you get more edges and areas in focus and therefore more indication on the plane or sphere of the in focus 'volume' but less chance to really nail focus and the whole idea falls apart and you get to focus similar to a matte screen...

Wide
Now the 35mm 1.4 seems to be a sweet spot for 'normal shooting'

Very wide
So now the new technology gets challenged with the 24mm 3.8 a huge amount of the image is showing as being in focus... so only chance is to zoom in with the focus peaking to see where the depth of focus is at, it works but no where as easy as with a range finder... but you get to see the whole field of view as opposed to a Leica M where you need an external finder for that. This makes the over all experience similar to shooting with a Leica M camera;
- First focus via the camera finder
- Then framing

Looks like the SL is usable for manual focusing but not really surpassing the Leica M's I would prefer to use the normal and longer M lenses on the SL

DoF and slow shutter simulation

Actually quite impressive the SL is able to show slow shutter tracing when moving the camera to an degree you will not believe; You will have to see this for yourself!
The view finder is really a huge leap forward in how to crate the image in the finder already before shooting the actual image to an degree above a DSLR...

The size and quality of the finder and rear display is fantastic.

[Erik Gunst Lund]

Size

The SL is actually same size as a Leica M9 with the RRS plate and grip, thickness length and height. Very nicely balanced and oozes quality

The SL feels really right even for my very big hands and the weather sealing and build quality is top notch. Very cleaver and minimalistic design.

 

Zoom Vario Elmarit 24-90mm 2.8-4

The zoom is large about the size and weight of the Nikkor 28-70mm 2.8 AFS or the new 24-70mm VR

The variable aperture is a non issue for me.


Feel and the hood

The real differences are the rather heavy drag of the zoom and focus rings and the ugly lens hood is attached to the end of the lens sticking out of the main lens barrel, not pretty - but OK... very distinct and recognizable for the brand... IMHO they should have gone with a lens hood design similar to the new Nikkor 24-70 VR lens hood, also the hood lags a decent lock to keep it in place the way it's shaped it could easily get knocked loose.

Focus

Super fast and positive focus, impressive!

Function

Overall function is like shooting a Pro DSLR like a D800 or D4
With a grip it will be the same...

Image Quality

Here some images with the zoom, it's fantastic at all focal lengths... True Leica quality

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Edited November 17, 2015 by Erik Gunst Lund

[Erik Gunst Lund]

B&W

For the B&W shooter there is really a boost in creative functionality, when set to B&W the finder show the image so well rendered with tonal graduations and grain that it's a whole new level of interaction with the camera, the test images are shot with the zomm again JPG directly form the card just resized. The camera saves a RAW file with full color of course.

 

Here with the Vario Elmarit around 30mm wide open

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Edited November 17, 2015 by Erik Gunst Lund

[Erik Gunst Lund]

SL with Leica M lenses

Very similar experience to shooting an M and the image quality of the output form the SL looks similar, first impressions are the very far corners on the 24mm 3.8 is suffering a bit wide open...

RAW files

The Adobe raw convert doesn't have full support for the SL yet and since I used my SD card directly from my Leica M9 that is the presets the software used, looks ok except the very red look of the logo color is a challenge in any situation.

Images below are with the following M-lenses wide open:

50mm 1.4 Pre Asph

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24mm 3.8

 

[Erik Gunst Lund]

SL with Leica M lenses
Images below are with the following M-lenses wide open:

70mm 2.4

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24mm 3.8

[Erik Gunst Lund]

Price

Price point is very close to a set like Nikon D4s with a 24-70 VR so for what is does out of the box it's fair in Leica land...

The challenge to win some Pro customers is to expand the lens arsenal although many could get away with the two zooms and a few primes...

Congratulations to Leica for creating a leap up in technology with the new SL

 

I'm seriously considering it...

There is naturally a new Leica M (Type 262) in the pipeline and it will be interesting to see how they will use the new viewfinder technology for it... My best guess is that it's an external view finder for the hot shoe like on the Type 240 so you end up with a 'Add on' solution... to keep the Leica M - Messucher-Kamera experience intact... not really ideal...

 

Interface

The human interaction with the cameras input dials and output screens are completely different to Nikon.

I have used Nikon cameras since 1989 with the F801s, F4, F5, D1, D1X, D2Xs, D3 and D3X so my interaction whit their interface is 'burned in'

The SL is customizable to a certain degree but it will take some getting used too...

The feel and look is really nice but very different to Nikon and of course there is a similar extensive menu for AF etc.

 

Summulux 50mm 1.4 Pre Asph

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Vario Elmarit @ 90mm

 

[Erik Gunst Lund]

M-Lenses on SL

 

Last but not least the 35mm 1.4 Asph FLE it really feels at home size the overall feel and the view finder experience is great, it snaps into focus and the, admittedly few image shot so far... looks great, very similar in image quality to the Leica M9

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Edited November 17, 2015 by Erik Gunst Lund

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[svenjosh]

Price

Price point is very close to a set like Nikon D4s with a 24-70 VR so for what is does out of the box it's fair in Leica land...

 

The challenge to win some Pro customers is to expand the lens arsenal although many could get away with the two zooms and a few primes...

 

Congratulations to Leica for creating a leap up in technology with the new SL

 

I'm seriously considering it...

 

There is naturally a new Leica M (Type 262) in the pipeline and it will be interesting to see how they will use the new viewfinder technology for it... My best guess is that it's an external view finder for the hot shoe like on the Type 240 so you end up with a 'Add on' solution... to keep the Leica M - Messucher-Kamera experience intact... not really ideal...

 

Interface

 

The human interaction with the cameras input dials and output screens are completely different to Nikon.

 

I have used Nikon cameras since 1989 with the F801s, F4, F5, D1, D1X, D2Xs, D3 and D3X so my interaction whit their interface is 'burned in'

 

The SL is customizable to a certain degree but it will take some getting used too...

 

The feel and look is really nice but very different to Nikon and of course there is a similar extensive menu for AF etc.

 

 

 I come from a very similar background. I use Nikon system D4s and D810 now. I have the Leica M system for personal use. So real valuable information for me.   Thanks a bunch, for taking time to post your impression and images.