tom0511 Posted August 8, 2016 Share #121 Posted August 8, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having both the Q and the T, I would take issue with your suggestion that the T's visoflex is on a par with the Q's built in viewfinder. I find the Q viewfinder to be far better than the visoflex! So far - based on my limited experience with the T - I would suggest that the IQ from the Q is also much superior than that with the T (at least from my limited experience with the 18-56 and the 11-23). I've just ordered the 35 1.4 TL so will see how that compares and I have really only used the 11-23 limitedly so far; aside from the flexibility to use multiple lenses (and I have not done so) the Q is a much better performer, at least in terms of focus speed, colors, and IQ vis a vis the T. (And, I'm wondering as well, how the T and 35 TL will compare to the Q's 35 mm in camera crop mode function. If anyone has compared the two I'd love to know their thoughts). As to the original post, I've got to believe that the T2 will have 24m pixels and a built in viewfinder. Perhaps 4k video as well. It will almost certainly remain a cropped sensor camera because the continued development of the TL lenses suggests as much. I think it remains a competitor to Sony's a 6300. Rob Hi Rob, I only owned the Q for maybe 8 weeks before I sold it when it came out and my clear impression was the visoflex to offer a clearly larger view and sharper edges than the Q viewfinder. AF of the Q is faster but the one of the T is not bad at all (with currrent firmware). Regarding color and IQ the T delivers less contrasty images out of camera compared to the Q and SL, but you can increase saturation and contrast if you want. I am sure when you go higher 1600 ISO there is a clear difference in noise, but I usually dont do that. I dont find the difference between the T and SL groundbreaking. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 Hi tom0511, Take a look here The T2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest satrycon Posted August 8, 2016 Share #122 Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) +1 and the T with M lenses brings out really gorgeous images. Regarding color and IQ the T delivers less contrasty images out of camera compared to the Q and SL, but you can increase saturation and contrast if you want. I am sure when you go higher 1600 ISO there is a clear difference in noise, but I usually dont do that. I dont find the difference between the T and SL groundbreaking. Edited August 8, 2016 by satrycon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted August 8, 2016 Share #123 Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Hi Rob, I only owned the Q for maybe 8 weeks before I sold it when it came out and my clear impression was the visoflex to offer a clearly larger view and sharper edges than the Q viewfinder. AF of the Q is faster but the one of the T is not bad at all (with currrent firmware). Regarding color and IQ the T delivers less contrasty images out of camera compared to the Q and SL, but you can increase saturation and contrast if you want. I am sure when you go higher 1600 ISO there is a clear difference in noise, but I usually dont do that. I dont find the difference between the T and SL groundbreaking. Thanks for the reply, Tom. I do agree that the Q is more contrasty. I have found the IQ on the Q to be sharper, but I'm anxious to see how the T with the 35 1.4 TL compares. I'm awaiting delivery next week. Regards, Rob Edited August 8, 2016 by ropo54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted August 8, 2016 Share #124 Posted August 8, 2016 M8 is sharper than M9 . T2 vs T1 will most likely be small upgrade . Similar to X2 vs X1. It wasn't until ver. 3.0 of the X , type 113 , that there was a significant change in form factor and IQ . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijve044 Posted August 9, 2016 Share #125 Posted August 9, 2016 +1 and the T with M lenses brings out really gorgeous images. +1 I did some comparisons with the T with SEM 21 and the Q and found identical sharpness at the roof tiles on a building 60 meters away at 100 % magnification. Contrast is less but I like it as it gives more detail in shadows. Color is more neutral and reality like. T lenses have some more pop up colors, I tried the Varios 11-23/ 18-56 and 23mm but I stayed with the M lenses although the 11-23 is really tempting and far better than the Voigtlanders 12 and 15 mm versions II and III. I'm using manual lenses for 35 years so MF is no problem.. For me IQ of the T is excellent and on par with the Q. So what would I like in the new T: Faster processor for start up and processing images on the SD/ Quicker AF. Better high ISO up to 6400. Better focusing with EVF and wide angle lenses. focus peaking? Same sensor and no built in EVF. And as stated by satrycon: The T with M lenses really brings out gorgeous images. Dre 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted August 9, 2016 Share #126 Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) +1 I did some comparisons with the T with SEM 21 and the Q and found identical sharpness at the roof tiles on a building 60 meters away at 100 % magnification. Contrast is less but I like it as it gives more detail in shadows. Color is more neutral and reality like. T lenses have some more pop up colors, I tried the Varios 11-23/ 18-56 and 23mm but I stayed with the M lenses although the 11-23 is really tempting and far better than the Voigtlanders 12 and 15 mm versions II and III. I'm using manual lenses for 35 years so MF is no problem.. For me IQ of the T is excellent and on par with the Q. So what would I like in the new T: Faster processor for start up and processing images on the SD/ Quicker AF. Better high ISO up to 6400. Better focusing with EVF and wide angle lenses. focus peaking? Same sensor and no built in EVF. And as stated by satrycon: The T with M lenses really brings out gorgeous images. Dre Sorry, have to disagree the Q and the T on par in the IQ with equivalent lens. Just two very distinctly different cameras and the Q is darn close to the M in the IQ department, plus given all its other pluses. I think the T with M lenses is excellent though. i have a couple T lenses, but never use them. Much prefer the images with one of my wider angle M lenses, like the 28 Summicron, on the T. Edited August 9, 2016 by billinghambaglady Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted August 9, 2016 Share #127 Posted August 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I also have to disagree on the IQ of the T being on par with the Q. As much as I love the T the Q is IMO in another league altogether with regards to IQ but also as a camera. Same comment for the Visoflex. I have a clear preference for the EVF of the Q, find the T too laggy and additionally an eyesore. I have never used M lenses on the T, sounds like I might be missing out there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest satrycon Posted August 10, 2016 Share #128 Posted August 10, 2016 M lenses Rock on the T, with the Leica adapter obviously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijve044 Posted August 10, 2016 Share #129 Posted August 10, 2016 M lenses Rock on the T, with the Leica adapter obviously. Well I only read technical critics and complaints about the T and never about what IQ is coming out of the T. Sounds more that toying qualities and pixel peeping of a camera are more important. And that's a poor establishment from a photographic point of view. I would highly recommend to take a look on satrycon's Flickr site. Really gorgeous images. Within short a shall post some images. Dre 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted August 10, 2016 Share #130 Posted August 10, 2016 Well I only read technical critics and complaints about the T and never about what IQ is coming out of the T. Sounds more that toying qualities and pixel peeping of a camera are more important. And that's a poor establishment from a photographic point of view. I would highly recommend to take a look on satrycon's Flickr site. Really gorgeous images. Within short a shall post some images. Dre Oh, interesting. And who made the comment about IQ of the T on par with the Q. Oh, right, was you. I wouldn't put words in the mouth of those that picked up on that. The T has excellent IQ and can produce some marvelous images. Let's get straight on that first before making judgements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted August 11, 2016 Share #131 Posted August 11, 2016 How low can the price go ? Refurbished T is currently $675 or best offer on ebay from authorized dealer . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 11, 2016 Share #132 Posted August 11, 2016 How low can the price go ? Refurbished T is currently $675 or best offer on ebay from authorized dealer . Miro, stop devaluating my camera!.... I am planning to sell it and get the new one! But with you are doing, I may not be able to do that!... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted August 11, 2016 Share #133 Posted August 11, 2016 Miro, stop devaluating my camera!.... I am planning to sell it and get the new one! But with you are doing, I may not be able to do that!... A bit too late probably, the price of a new T has gone down to $1,095 at B&H. It is only normal that used prices follow suit... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 11, 2016 Share #134 Posted August 11, 2016 A bit too late probably, the price of a new T has gone down to $1,095 at B&H. It is only normal that used prices follow suit... Then I guess, T would a little later become a piece of collection and prices would rise!... I know; I know; just a wishful thinking! ') Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted August 11, 2016 Share #135 Posted August 11, 2016 $675 or best offer for as new T with 1 year leica warranty . When T2 is finally released anf market is flooded with used original T , wonder how low price could go . $500 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted August 11, 2016 Share #136 Posted August 11, 2016 I bought mine (second one) recently, and mainly due the prices. The basic camera is fine, NO, it's not the latest and greatest any more, but it just works. When I bought into the T system about 12-15 months ago, they were still reasonably new, quite quirky, and did have the odd "issue", the slowness of startup etc. At that time I reasoned, either an M8 or the T, different beasts I know, but in effect a digital back for my M lenses. I'd had an M8 (then an M9) quite a while ago, and while I'd grab another M8 in a heartbeat, I was scared off by the coffee stain issues, and the general "it's a quite old digital camera now, parts might be an issue" feeling. Fallacy? Don't know, but that was the main reason for getting the T, and I was happy. Second time around, the same applies, it's still a very viable digital back, and I'm having a ball with the M lenses. I had planned on grabbing a wider zoom, but maybe I'll just fiddle with what I have. If I can find a reasonably priced Visoflex I will get that, otherwise I am sorted. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted August 11, 2016 Share #137 Posted August 11, 2016 $675 or best offer for as new T with 1 year leica warranty . When T2 is finally released anf market is flooded with used original T , wonder how low price could go . $500 ? If I went the new "T2" and already had the old original T, and was faced with the prospect of $500 or less, I'd be keeping it simply out of spite. It makes sense to me to have the original as a spare if the price is THAT low. Gary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 11, 2016 Share #138 Posted August 11, 2016 Nobody knows if there will be definitely be a new T (at Photokina) or what model designation it might have … all speculation / wishful thinking until a firm announcement is made. Furthermore, the T body has always been priced to sell i.e. less than other Leica ICL cameras - but what is gained on the body price is lost on the accessories and lenses. dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted August 11, 2016 Share #139 Posted August 11, 2016 ... an expensive albeit beautiful paperweight Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted August 11, 2016 Share #140 Posted August 11, 2016 ... an expensive albeit beautiful paperweight Disagree, respectfully of course. Mine is a very nice, and very functional camera. I am always torn between taking it, or the X-Vario. Both are wonderful to use, the X-Vario being the epitome of simplicity. Gary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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