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Well if the rest of the specs will stay the same as the current SL and are not down sampled with the same amount of 0,7x, we certainly have a deal. Leaves us discussing the price..........

 

But how much I would like to see a serious "pro" T2, I think Leica will keep the T "entry-level". Doesn't mean some of the SL-dna won't trickle down to the T eventually.

 

I still like my T very very much and I am in no hurry to trade it in yet for the next one.  SL will be probably first in line for me, it will make a nice combo!

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Take an SL, stick it on a photocopier, set the reduction mode to say 70% and press copy.

 

Do we have the T2?

Would be a nice camera. I would like one. Not likely to be accepted because it wont be full frame.

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Would be a nice camera. I would like one. Not likely to be accepted because it wont be full frame.

??? The T has an APS-C sensor and so will the 'T2' whenever it materialises.

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The T is not full frame. Accordingly it was rejected by many forum enthusiasts. The T2 will be the same...

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Hopefully they will upgrade the sensor, but since they have already the M and the SL at 24 Mp, I don't know if they'll go up to 24. It seems to me they want to have a sort of differentiation in megapixels count among different cameras. Maybe 20 megapixels with a custom sensor like the one in the Q and SL?

I would prefer also an integrated viewfinder,  but I doubt they'll go to that route either.

Edited by A B

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How about a special version ofvthe SL with a dedicated APA-C sensor for T lenses? As is - rhe T offers 10MP with T lenses. A smaller picel pitch sensor dedicated to T lenses could be offered? Even the current T sensor could be used. Would Leica sell this verdion of yhe SL for less money?

Edited by lm_user

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Hopefully they will upgrade the sensor, but since they have already the M and the SL at 24 Mp, I don't know if they'll go up to 24. It seems to me they want to have a sort of differentiation in megapixels count among different cameras. Maybe 20 megapixels with a custom sensor like the one in the Q and SL?

I would prefer also an integrated viewfinder,  but I doubt they'll go to that route either.

APS-C to FF is differentiation enough, I would think. To me, the key would be to be perceived as keeping up with the competition, and there is a fair number of competitor cameras at the price of the T: for once, Leica is not lonely at their price point.

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How about a special version ofvthe SL with a dedicated APA-C sensor for T lenses? As is - rhe T offers 10MP with T lenses. A smaller picel pitch sensor dedicated to T lenses could be offered? Even the current T sensor could be used. Would Leica sell this verdion of yhe SL for less money?

 

But a large FF body to house an APS-C sensor? Sorry I can't see any point in that. 

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I could imagine they will use a Sony sensor again, maybe the one Nikon uses in the D 7100 or Sony itself in their A77 II, with 24 MP.

The sensor from the Q/SL cutted down to APS-C would be 10MP as we know, so maybe not a good idea.

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But a large FF body to house an APS-C sensor? Sorry I can't see any point in that.

I agree with your premise. Makes sense - why use a large body when a 70pct one would work? On the other hand, I do not see the SL body as being too big. I like to have something to hold on to. ( Iwould have to handle an SL - but I feel Indifferent to the current SL size vs a 70 pct SL) There are photos of the 35mm TL lens on the SL and it appears to be a nice match.

 

I think this is a tough market. What would really sell would be TL size lenses on SL (of redced size SL as you suggest) with a full frame sensor. General acceptance of APS-C in the T price range is poor.

 

Is the general feeling that Sony A7 is the right size with full frame and the full frame lenses are not too big for the body? If so - why can Sony make small lenses for full frame and Leica gets bad press for large slow lenses. Surely Leica has the expertise to copy or better Sony optics.....

Edited by lm_user

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Is the general feeling that Sony A7 is the right size with full frame and the full frame lenses are not too big for the body? If so - why can Sony make small lenses for full frame and Leica gets bad press for large slow lenses. Surely Leica has the expertise to copy or better Sony optics.....

 

I'm unaware of small fast lenses for the A7. I have an A7R (for sale on ebay right now! auction #321913023239) and the small lenses are only moderately fast (35mm f2.8 is nice and small) but the 55mm f1.8 is pretty large. The Loxia lenses are large.

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The T2 could stay close to the design and interface of the existing T, it could sport an M-like look (and an EVF) like the Q does, or it could be a baby SL with its S-like interface but a smaller body. Anything is possible but a development based on the existing design makes a lot of sense I would say.

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The T2 could stay close to the design and interface of the existing T, it could sport an M-like look (and an EVF) like the Q does, or it could be a baby SL with its S-like interface but a smaller body. Anything is possible but a development based on the existing design makes a lot of sense I would say.

I really do like the T camera and user interface.

 

So my wishlist:

 

Integrate an EVF but dont change the user interface.

Make the wheels a little stiffer

integrate some OIS in the body and sensor cleaning

weather sealing wouldnt hurt

avoid blackout time when making an image

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For me a natural and preferable evolution for the T2 would be:

- Keep it's size, that' s what makes me use it every day!

- Don't  change the UI, for everyone who uses one, me included, it is its USP!

  Improve it in speed, tactility, flexibility etc.

- An EVF, next generation, SL quality or better.

  For me, integrating it in the body, would only make sense, if the body doesn't get any bigger.

  So one solution could be to get rid of the flash, rearrange the internals and put the big eyepatch on the corner.

  You win a flash mount back to be used again, which you can't with the current EVF.

- Improved sensor and faster and more capable processor, with Leica ( by Panasonic) identity, DR and colours.

  Only expand to 24 Mp if pixels have the same quality or better.

- Integrate M- and R-lens profiles like in the SL.

- Movable focuspoint (with joystick) like the SL.

- Make it weatherproof; with only two dials, lens mount, EVF and the battery as the only openings,

   it wouldn't be to difficult or expensive.

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The T2 has probably been in development for many months … "Que sera sera …" …  and there's little that anyone can do or suggest to change or influence it. 

 

But as for the T3 … 

 

However, gratifying to see more positive posts about the T recently - especially now that it's rumoured demise/discontinuation has been knocked on the head

 

dunk

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The T2 has probably been in development for many months … "Que sera sera …" …  and there's little that anyone can do or suggest to change or influence it. 

 

That's why I expect a trickle down of the new technology of the SL. It is a parallel development of the T and SL, with alternating the presentation of a new camera of each system (every two years ?)

So no new and big formfactor changes for the T2. New sensor, processor and firmware is to be expected and doesn't demand extra space...... Weatherproofing could have been foreseen, earlier, as the main attraction for this new iteration.

 

Even putting the EVF incamera is a big IF. No big letdown for me if the new better EVF stayed on top and is detachable.

 

By the way never ever believed any rumour about the discontinuation of the T.

Leica doesn't put a new product on the market and leave it bleed to death after just one iteration. They have only long term strategy in mind when producing new products.

Edited by AndrewAM

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The T2 could stay close to the design and interface of the existing T, it could sport an M-like look (and an EVF) like the Q does, or it could be a baby SL with its S-like interface but a smaller body. Anything is possible but a development based on the existing design makes a lot of sense I would say.

The thing is, it could be all of those things and Leica can readily make slightly different cameras with different form factors which fill those niches. The guts of the camera can be the same: the same logic board the same sensor assembly. The difference would be in the firmware load and how it implements the UI. Is it wiring switches to GPIO pins or is it using a touch screen. 

 

If I were Leica, I would make a the first T2 variation be built off of exactly the same case as the current T right down to the same mounting holes for the logic board and sensor assembly, it would be identical right down to the positions of the attach points of the flex cables driving the touch screen and going to the hot shoe etc. That way the parts would be compatible and wouldn't need to be changed. Then I would simultaneously introduce a T2 and a CLAU program. Clean Lubricate Adjust and Upgrade. The essence of the upgrade would be replacing the logic board and the sensor assembly with the new part. This would turn the problem of having to compete with ones own installed base into periodic service revenue. It would maintain contact with the customer and provide an opportunity to sell additional lenses and accessories. Having an upgradable camera vs a disposable camera would be a key differentiator for a brand like Leica. It would once again make a Leica a long term investment rather than a disposable consumer product.

 

I think the T is well suited to this approach. I haven't torn it down but it seems to be designed for manufacturability and possibly serviceability. There are probably two logic boards in there not including the display and I would guess about 3-5 flex cables. 

 

Then if Leica so chooses they can elaborate different form factors within the T line as different products. These would be along the lines of the variations you enumerated. They would be all practically the same camera with the same logic board and sensor assembly right down to the mounting screws. However, they would route the flex-cables differently. For example instead of having the EVF pins go to the hot shoe, they go to a location in the case where the guts of the EVF are permanently mounted. And instead of a big touch screen display, they have a smaller display module and a few physical switches. The rest is just variations in how you implement the UI in firmware.

 

As part of that strategy I would drop the X line and make a TL mount camera with X like controls (or really because I think it is a winning combination Q like controls). Call it the X-TL or something.

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Ben,

 

Nice technical brainstorming, but where is the viable business model in this approach?

 

Like Leica is doing for years, they should keep it simple. The form and UI from the current model just work. For future iterations the priority should be expanding the system with lenses, incorporate new technology that comes available and make it more durable. Keep the form as it is, recognisable and futuristic.

 

It just works for the moment!

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