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Leica R and M lenses on the Leica SL (Typ 601)


Leicaiste

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Hi Jono,

Maybe you already answered somewhere but i would like to know if you felt focussing on the EVF, diaphragm closed say at 5.6-8 is about as convenient as focusing on a SLR diapragm wide open ?

In other words would it be nice and useful to have a future adaptor actuating the diaphragme ?

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Hi Jono, Maybe you already answered somewhere but i would like to know if you felt focussing on the EVF, diaphragm closed say at 5.6-8 is about as convenient as focusing on a SLR diapragm wide open ? In other words would it be nice and useful to have a future adaptor actuating the diaphragme ?

 

Not being Jono, but see this.

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Hi Jono, Maybe you already answered somewhere but i would like to know if you felt focussing on the EVF, diaphragm closed say at 5.6-8 is about as convenient as focusing on a SLR diapragm wide open ? In other words would it be nice and useful to have a future adaptor actuating the diaphragme ?

 

Not being Jono, I can't speak for him.

 

But I know for me how "convenient" it is to focus at stopped down vs wide open aperture depends a lot on the focal length, the subject and lighting conditions, and the particular lens. Presuming a lens with good, snappy contrast, most of the time I can focus nearly any lens 50mm and up with excellent consistency stopped down to f/5.6-8 with a good EVF and no assists. I can do the same with shorter focal lengths, presuming I use magnification to assist. When I have the time and am working more static subjects, I'll use maximum aperture to pinpoint my focus setting even a little bit better. That's all, and without even thinking about other assists like focus peaking. 

 

I don't know why this has become such a big deal. People have been adapting R lenses to Nikon and Canon digital bodies with Leitax for a decade, giving up auto-diaphragm in the process, where it's far far more difficult to focus stopped down because the viewfinder becomes too dim. And people have been using tonnes of adapted lenses (both SLR and RF) on mirrorless bodies at working aperture since late 2008 and singing its praises. Why now, when Leica produces a mirrorless body with the best EVF yet seen, is everyone being so cautionary and adamant that they MUST have auto-diaphragm operation or "it's a no go, a failure, Leica shoulda known better" et cetera? The SL will certainly not fare more poorly than any of the other mirrorless bodies from Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, and Sony with stopped down adapted lenses. AND there is the possibility that the dedicated R to SL adapter when it appears will indeed support auto-diaphragm operation, which no other system does.

 

What's the big problem all of a sudden? I just don't understand all this palaver about it. 

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I don't know why this has become such a big deal. People have been adapting R lenses to Nikon and Canon digital bodies with Leitax for a decade, giving up auto-diaphragm in the process, where it's far far more difficult to focus stopped down because the viewfinder becomes too dim.... What's the big problem all of a sudden? I just don't understand all this palaver about it. 

 

I have not adapted my Telyts to CaNikon cameras.  I've been holding out, using the R8 with DMR precisely because stoping down with a CaNikon viewfinder has been such a poor option.

Edited by wildlightphoto
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Hi Jono, Maybe you already answered somewhere but i would like to know if you felt focussing on the EVF, diaphragm closed say at 5.6-8 is about as convenient as focusing on a SLR diapragm wide open ? In other words would it be nice and useful to have a future adaptor actuating the diaphragme ?

Hi There . . . 

I'm perfectly happy focusing stopped down full frame on the SL EVF - I think the advantages of seeing the dof in the image is enough of an advantage, but I do think that practice is really important . . . I don't often zoom in, and I never bother with focus peaking - I think the 'ground glass' is enogh . . BUT

 

I really respect people like Doug, and I don't shoot wildlife at long focal lengths, so I would very much like to see an adapter with a stop down option. 

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I have not adapted my Telyts to CaNikon cameras.  I've been holding out, using the R8 with DMR precisely because stoping down with a CaNikon viewfinder has been such a poor option.

 

 

 

 

Same for me...

As an answer to Ramarren i am unable to focus quickly and accurately my 55mm Otus on an A7r when diaphragm is closed handholding.

When i say that i may have good results in some conditions but nonetheless the exact point of focus is hit or miss if you want exact placement.

The problem is very simply increased depth of field.

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Let's hope, then that Leica surprises and delights us all with an R Adapter SL that includes AASD, and particularly for those who have difficulty focusing at anything but wide open aperture. Critical focus should be done wide open for sure, but it is possible to focus with excellent consistency using a bright, high resolution EVF, particularly when using longer lenses in good light. It's not a dim, dark, hard to see viewfinder experience like a stopped down lens on an SLR. 

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Correct me if I am wrong but when focusing stopped down, does not the DOF go up hand in hand with the decrease in the ability to focus accurately? In other words, when stopped down, it is more difficult to determine the absolute most accurate focus point and most folks find the point at near and far where the image is obviously out of focus and then set the focus point in the middle. However when stopped down, accurate focus is less important due to the increased DOF, eventually to the point where, particularly on very wide angle lenses, you can just leave the focus ring at the hyperfocal distance and forget about focusing altogether. I thought that prime purpose of auto stop down on optical VF SLR's was for the purposes of having a brighter image, rather than focus accuracy. On an EVF, the screen can automatically compensate for the decrease in brightness. I don't know if the SL continues with the very useful exposure preview on live view of the M240 - I hope so.  

 

Wilson

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The Novoflex adapter acts like an uncoded M lens - so that if you choose the lens profile menu option on the SL it will ONLY BRING UP M LENSES - If you use stacked T and R adapters, then the T adapter reads the 6 bit code on the R adapter and brings up a list of 57 R lenses to choose from . . . . . which populates the exif data, estimates the aperture (really well) and informs the Auto ISO. It also applies lens corrections where applicable.

 

Wow, that's really bad news. Is there really no other way to select the mounted R lens?
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Wow, that's really bad news. Is there really no other way to select the mounted R lens?

I presume the M to T/L adapter includes a bit of electronics which reads the 6 bit code and converts that to an electrical signal via the contacts. The Novoflexes seem to be just dumb, if well made, extension tubes. On the Novoflex XXX to LEM adapters, they include coding pits on which you can paint in the R to M adapter code. On the earlier Novoflex adapters it was just a white painted rebate on which you used a sharpie - see pic below of my Contax to Leica M adapter, with R to M adapter code marked on (needs re-doing as ink has faded). This code would then be picked up either by an M240 or an SL with M to T adapter and bring up the R lens menu. It would not be in Leica's interest sadly to make this menu accessible manually, as that would reduce M to T/L adapter sales  :(.

 

Wilson

 

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Correct me if I am wrong but when focusing stopped down, does not the DOF go up hand in hand with the decrease in the ability to focus accurately? In other words, when stopped down, it is more difficult to determine the absolute most accurate focus point and most folks find the point at near and far where the image is obviously out of focus and then set the focus point in the middle. However when stopped down, accurate focus is less important due to the increased DOF, eventually to the point where, particularly on very wide angle lenses, you can just leave the focus ring at the hyperfocal distance and forget about focusing altogether. I thought that prime purpose of auto stop down on optical VF SLR's was for the purposes of having a brighter image, rather than focus accuracy. On an EVF, the screen can automatically compensate for the decrease in brightness. I don't know if the SL continues with the very useful exposure preview on live view of the M240 - I hope so.  

 

Wilson

There is a way to avoid this problem, even turn it into an advantage. For instance, if focusing on an animal, one can focus on the structured ground beside it (grass, pebbles, whatever) and thus, by "walking" the focus field, place the plane of maximum focus exactly where one wants it.
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There is a way to avoid this problem, even turn it into an advantage. For instance, if focusing on an animal, one can focus on the structured ground beside it (grass, pebbles, whatever) and thus, by "walking" the focus field, place the plane of maximum focus exactly where one wants it.

 

Ability to "walk the focus field" is the best way to make use of focus peaking as you make small focus adjustments and watch the sparkly bits move across the subject and its immediate environment.  It's a clear advantage of an EVF, unless you find the sparkly bits too annoying.

 

scott

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I guess in the end, I could either select no code (from the M list) or try the 135 Telyt code (being the longest).

 

It's only an interim work around, anyway.

 

Cheers

John

HI John

I'd get an T to M adapter and then add an M to R/contax/nikon/yourchoice adapter to that (if it doesn't have a six bit code you can easily mark it with one).

Then you'll have a list of the R lenses to pick from with intelligent auto ISO etc. 

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I presume the M to T/L adapter includes a bit of electronics which reads the 6 bit code and converts that to an electrical signal via the contacts. -SNIP- This code would then be picked up either by an M240 or an SL with M to T adapter and bring up the R lens menu. It would not be in Leica's interest sadly to make this menu accessible manually, as that would reduce M to T/L adapter sales  :(.

 

Wilson

 

 

HI Wilson

That's right - so that coded Novoflex M to whatever adapters will bring up the R menu, but TL to R adapters will not do this unless Novoflex decide to put a chip in them (I guess they might do that).

 

It's not fair to suggest that Leica would do extra programming to help other manufacturers compete with them for sales of their own hardware! Make no mistake, the current stacked TL to M / M to R adapters is no kind of a kludge - it works really well without any obvious downside. 

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Wow, that's really bad news. Is there really no other way to select the mounted R lens?

Why do you need another way? it works extremely well, and it also allows you to have a number of adapters for different lenses (which will also bring up the R lens list to choose from).

So, in effect you have a Leica TL to M adapter (readily available) and then you can add the adapter of your choice to that, and as long as the second adapter is 6 bit coded it'll bring up the R lens list. The Leica adapters are really well made, and there's no looseness using the TL/M +M/R Leica adapters. 

 

As Leicaiste says - it remembers the last R lens used as well.

 

Of course, it would be even better if it read the ROM chip on the R lenses - hopefully the new adapter that comes next year will do this . . . but of course, that adapter will not help for attaching all those lovely old Contax and Nikon lenses :)

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