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Who are the target customers for the SL?


Peter Walker

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Well it will be interesting to see how it performs with wides such as the WATE etc and I am sure that the my apo-telyt 135 will also perform well on the SL but then it also performs fantastically on the A7II and A7rII with added benefit of IBIS. 

HI David

It's Grate with the WATE - and the 28 'lux and the 35 'lux . . . and it's good with the 28 elmarit and the 28 'cron and the 35 'cro and it's fantastic with the 50 APO. Glorious with the 75 summicron.

hmmm haven't tried the Apo Telyt - I'll have to dig it out:)

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So fast and tele M lenses weren't really designed to be used with the M camera after all?

 

Amazing how we learn new stuff here all the time - usually after some new product launch…..

Yes, I wonder why so many M users tried the 7's from Sony.

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I am fairly certain I am a target customer. Price is no object but I must have the camera in hand to know.

 

Perhaps what I write next should be a separate topic. Leica fails in my modest opinion to characterize their models in terms of potential buyers. Some of their so-called lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work.

 

Do you disagree, and why?

.

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Some of their so-called lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work.

 

 

 

HCB? He's that old guy who used film isn't he? 

 

Yeah I guess a 'lesser' film Leica such as an M-A could make comparative quality work, as long as you don't use an ASPH or APO Summicron. 

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Leica fails in my modest opinion to characterize their models in terms of potential buyers. Some of their so-called lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work.

 

Do you disagree, and why?

.

 

I neither agree nor disagree.

 

But I think it is an instructive look at our human mind that always is so keen on categorising things.

 

My other passion is scuba diving with a fascination for marine life.  It's always amazing to me that, on returning to the boat, rather than discuss the creatures seen, their behaviours and habitats, the main conversation (and, often, argument) is about "what was it".  In the 1750s, Carl Linnaeu designed a complex system for categorising all living things: Phylums, ... Genus, Species.   The more we understand about creatures and evolution, the more difficult it gets to fit new discoveries into the pigeon holes.  And yet we persist because the human brain likes it that way.

 

But, I wonder why.  Assuming most evolved traits give the acquirer of that trait some advantage, I guess it helped to think, "big hairy growly thing = danger -> run".

 

So, maybe my comment has devolved into a discussion of big hairy growly photographers - or I am suggesting that categorisation may not be necessary.  Use it for whatever purpose suits you...

 

Regards

Peter

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I am fairly certain I am a target customer. Price is no object but I must have the camera in hand to know.

 

Perhaps what I write next should be a separate topic. Leica fails in my modest opinion to characterize their models in terms of potential buyers. Some of their so-called lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work.

 

Do you disagree, and why?

.

it is impossible to compare....first HBC would probably use an iPhone today and i am not sure he would be able to make a living with photography....that is not because he wasn't extremely talented but maybe because he would do something else altogether today? photography then and now is so incredibly different that it is impossible to say anyway....he would probably be just as brilliant at something else....

i would say that today most professional work is produced with mid range products....a lot of very, very high end professional commercial work is produced with low end tech....and while you do see the digital backs in the "behind the scenes"videos of huge commercial productions, the actual images that end up on the page are mostly shot with the 5D (I,ii,III) and 24-105.....that combo owns magazine editorial and advertising.....the deciding factor hasn't been the camera in a long time (if it ever was)...it's the production value....and the eye behind the lens of course, but honestly to a lesser degree......there are several photographers (art and commercial) who have camera operators.....so the photographer is actually the director....not the DP....

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I am fairly certain I am a target customer. Price is no object but I must have the camera in hand to know.

 

Perhaps what I write next should be a separate topic. Leica fails in my modest opinion to characterize their models in terms of potential buyers. Some of their so-called lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work.

 

Do you disagree, and why?

.

 

And Bert Hardy proved that 'professional' photographs could be taken with a 'Box Brownie' … and today many use a smart phone in preference to a camera … and some think they can emulate HCB … and Bert Hardy … However, far better to be original and try and do your own thing with whatever camera you can afford. 

 

If you desire a Leica you'll get one and for whatever reason … even if it's an oldie … and that includes e.g. any secondhand M8 or M2/3/4 etc. … or any Leica SLR … the choice is enormous. But to suggest that  "lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work " … is a bit like saying a learner driver can win the Monte Carlo Rally … it ain't gonna happen. 

 

 

dunk

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But to suggest that  "lesser cameras can produce professional work comparative in quality to, for example, HBC's work " … is a bit like saying a learner driver can win the Monte Carlo Rally … it ain't gonna happen. 

 

I don't think you have thought that one through.

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Well, I am hoping the SL is targeted at a niche of photographers who; prefer manual focus; use tripods; photograph at times in atmospheric weather; subject their kit to less than optimal care; currently mount legacy R lenses on DSLR's;  have an unhealthy interest in some wide angle M lenses corner performance; zero interest in the RF experience and perceive the build, design and UI  of current FF MILC's to be so compromised, they are the photographic equivalence of a dementor's kiss. :)


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Well, I am hoping the SL is targeted at a niche of photographers who; prefer manual focus; use tripods; photograph at times in atmospheric weather; subject their kit to less than optimal care; currently mount legacy R lenses on DSLR's;  have an unhealthy interest in some wide angle M lenses corner performance; zero interest in the RF experience and perceive the build, design and UI  of current FF MILC's to be so compromised, they are the photographic equivalence of a dementor's kiss. :)

 

 

If I understand you correctly, I think that the SL will suit you well.  You ought to be able to do all of those things while enjoying the minimalistic UI.  

 

Although I would recommend you rethink your "less than optimal care" approach.  Even a rugged camera needs a little TLC...

 

Regards

Peter

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Each generation of new Electronic Leica reaffirms the genius of the designers of the film M-system cameras. Tough durable and timeless tools that are as capable now as they were over 50 years ago when the M3 was first introduced. I guess that means I'm not in the target customer range. 

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In few minutes I became an SL target  as yesterday I went to do a visit in the Bologna  leica store. I was  without the idea to see the new SL. I wasn't interested because from the internet picture's it was bigg and odd. After half an hour, speaking of everything of photo and even of the sony a7rii , he ( Gilberto ) ask me to see and try the SL and .... in my hands it was perfect !  I have had to sell my leica MM and my sony A7ii but I have orderd the new SL .  I think it will be perfect for my M and R lenses ( noctilux f1 and summilux R 80mm especially )

A lip in the dark !! but after many M I believe in Leica philosophy and so ... next week I 'll see and have it in my hands .

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Well, I am hoping the SL is targeted at a niche of photographers who; prefer manual focus; use tripods; photograph at times in atmospheric weather; subject their kit to less than optimal care; currently mount legacy R lenses on DSLR's;  have an unhealthy interest in some wide angle M lenses corner performance; zero interest in the RF experience and perceive the build, design and UI  of current FF MILC's to be so compromised, they are the photographic equivalence of a dementor's kiss. :)

 

Hmm

I guess it's targeted at whoever will buy it. In my case I like auto focus (and manual), never use a tripod, take pictures in the rain/snow, mount all sorts of glass, love wide M lenses corner performance love the RF experience and don't think the SL has much to do with other current MILCs, whether FF or not. 

 

I'm not sure if it's directed at me, but it's certainly captivated me!

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I only saw the SL in a shopwindow and...i found the zoom huge (which I didn't like) but the body itself was not so big as it seems from  many photographs I saw.

This let me think that maybe the body with M lenses could be something interesting...by the way I like the body from an aesthetic point of view...

robert

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In few minutes I became an SL target  as yesterday I went to do a visit in the Bologna  leica store. I was  without the idea to see the new SL. I wasn't interested because from the internet picture's it was bigg and odd. After half an hour, speaking of everything of photo and even of the sony a7rii , he ( Gilberto ) ask me to see and try the SL and .... in my hands it was perfect !  I have had to sell my leica MM and my sony A7ii but I have orderd the new SL .  I think it will be perfect for my M and R lenses ( noctilux f1 and summilux R 80mm especially )

A lip in the dark !! but after many M I believe in Leica philosophy and so ... next week I 'll see and have it in my hands .

Gilberto, if you're reading this, don't worry, the medal and bonus are on their way from Wetzlar as l write.

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Well, I am hoping the SL is targeted at a niche of photographers who; prefer manual focus; use tripods; photograph at times in atmospheric weather; subject their kit to less than optimal care; currently mount legacy R lenses on DSLR's;  have an unhealthy interest in some wide angle M lenses corner performance; zero interest in the RF experience and perceive the build, design and UI  of current FF MILC's to be so compromised, they are the photographic equivalence of a dementor's kiss. :)

 

Manual focus: mostly but not always.

Tripods: rarely.

Atmospheric weather: is that bad weather? Then yes.

Less than optimal care: I don't know what this means. My kit doesn't live in a dry cabinet, but I don't throw it on the cobbles either (oh yes, I did that with my AA 75 summicron once - that was expensive).

Legacy R: I don't have any, but have one on order for the SL (80-200).

WA M lenses: I use the 28 EImarit a lot, but rarely pixel peep.

RF experience: l have the M and enjoy using it.

| don't know what your last criterion means. I do get confused by complex button and menu systems, but | recognise the value of some of the technology in e.g. the EM5ii, which I have: IBIS, silent shutter, high ISO performance etc. I hope the SL can get a silent shutter as a firmware upgrade BTW.

 

I want the SL as a complement to my M, not as a replacement: portraits, events, music and theatre, where longer lenses and low light exposures and focussing are needed, and portability is less critical. I'm not sure what that makes me as a target.

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Well, I am hoping the SL is targeted at a niche of photographers who; prefer manual focus; use tripods; photograph at times in atmospheric weather; subject their kit to less than optimal care; currently mount legacy R lenses on DSLR's;  have an unhealthy interest in some wide angle M lenses corner performance; zero interest in the RF experience and perceive the build, design and UI  of current FF MILC's to be so compromised, they are the photographic equivalence of a dementor's kiss. :)

 

 

This thread has been thriving on a steady diet of lumpy troll turds.  They may think they are dementors, but they haven't come close to soul-sucking so far.  If they forget themselves, and don't get back under their bridges when the sun rises later this week, they will turn to stone.  Don't tell them.  (I guess that is a Baggins discovery, not a Potter.)

 

As for me, I've said this elsewhere, but:

 

Manual or AF -- whatever works.  AF for events, MF if that's what the lens requires, even for sports.

Tripod -- sometimes, more often than Jono at least. 

Kit care -- I drop them from time to time, but haven't yet had a dog piss on my kit or taken anything down a beer slide.  Generally I get banged up worse than the gear.  Haven't used my Leica M to fight my way out of a riot, and it might not be the right weapon to bring to today's knife and gunfights.

I currently mount some nice legacy R lenses on an M[240], thank you, and sighting them through a VF2 using the M's kludgy LiveView image magnification is getting pretty old.

I do care about the corner performance of some extremely wide M lenses (and others) and am willing to stop down a bit to get it.

Can't see why one should shoot 28, 35 or 50 mm lenses on anything but an M,  but that leaves out a lot.

 

scott

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