Long exposures with M(240)

[jmahto]

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this is odd news indeed- I thought I was sure you could only get a 60 sec exposure using base ISO? I assume this trick only works when using AUTO ISO?

Try it out and let me know. Keep the lens cap on to block all light and test it. I will be interested to know how other's camera is behaving.

[darylgo]

Try it out and let me know. Keep the lens cap on to block all light and test it. I will be interested to know how other's camera is behaving.

Yes, confirmed, it works!

My m240 will do this in Automatic, I wasn't able to duplicate it with Bulb.  In the bulb mode it would initially expose the maximum 16 seconds, then it would no longer expose 16 seconds  and reverted to 1/45s.  The camera also reverted to it's max 16 seconds in A mode, I can no longer get 60 seconds.  Quite inconsistent.  

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[jaques]

just tried it- my camera stops at 8 seconds on bulb or A mode. Did you use a cable release as well? and hold/lock it for the 60 seconds?

 

otherwise it seems very odd- and you are very lucky- don't think my camera can do this.

 

one last thing- I am not running the latest firmware... are you?

[jmahto]

just tried it- my camera stops at 8 seconds on bulb or A mode. Did you use a cable release as well? and hold/lock it for the 60 seconds?

 

otherwise it seems very odd- and you are very lucky- don't think my camera can do this.

 

one last thing- I am not running the latest firmware... are you?

 

Thanks. I tried it again with  the same process I described before and now I also can't get more than 16 sec on ISO 800 (bulb or A). I don't know how my milkyway pic got 60 sec exposure on ISO 800 (I have the EXIF in the pic which says so and star streak that can happen at 60sec exposure to tell me that the EXIF data is correct). I thought I had recorded the setup correctly.

 

Anyway I apologize for the wild goose chase. I will keep fiddling my camera later though.

[jaques]

still that's odd- as I only get 8- every time. What firmware were you running? Have you changed FW since you took that shot?

 

The annoying thing- is your photo proves that the camera can actually do the job- I really enjoyed longer exposures on my M9:

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[jmahto]

still that's odd- as I only get 8- every time. What firmware were you running? Have you changed FW since you took that shot?

 

The annoying thing- is your photo proves that the camera can actually do the job- I really enjoyed longer exposures on my M9:

 

 

I think I got it. I had to play around with various combination of steps trying to recall exactly what I did that time. 

 

Now I am managing to make it misbehave (note I didn't say fully reproducible but can certainly make it go longer) it by the following:

 

- Auto ISO: MAX 800: 1/2xf  (not sure last part matters or not)

- Camera in B mode << IMPORTANT

- Shutter self time mode for 12sec

- Simulate dark condition by covering lens and press shutter

- Interrupt the self timer by switching it off in the middle of count down << IMPORTANT

- Switch it on and put in self timer again.

- Press the shutter and this time let it trip the shutter after 12 sec.

 

Now the exposure will go longer than 8 sec or 16 sec. I manage to make it go longer but the duration seems random. Sometimes I got 60 sec for 640 ISO (it selected ISO and duration by itself) and sometimes 32 sec for ISO 800. I think something else is going on when the camera is interrupted during the self timer count down. It could be that meter is on at some point and due to bug it forgets to close the shutter earlier when the camera is switched on next.

 

BTW, I am running 2.0.1.5 (I think 2.0.1.7 is same as this one. Only few lens codes were added).

 

Let me know if you can make your camera misbehave (to your advantage).

[Exodies]

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What exactly do you mean by "interrupt the self timer by switching it off"?

[jaques]

yes- do you mean turn off the power- or press the shutter again? I will test again later.

 

this story just gets weirder   -   it's like Leica hid the possibility in there. A hack. Perhaps there was a long exposure fan in the software dept who hid this feature for himself....

 

I hope they add the ability to do up to 60 seconds at all ISO's in a firmware update. It seems to me the only reason Leica did it was because they determined the image quality was not good enough for higher ISO's. I doubt there is a technical reason. I would rather have the option of deciding what's acceptable and what isn't.

[darylgo]

Jmahto.

 

The self timer is likely the key, when I was able to get 60 seconds iso 800 (auto iso) I had a cable release attached and hadn't locked it down with the first press, the camera was counting down and I pressed a second time and locked it, thus interupting the first count down

and restarting the self timer at 12 seconds. At the time I didn't attach any significance to that procedural variation.

[jmahto]

What exactly do you mean by "interrupt the self timer by switching it off"?

Yes. switch off the camera while the countdown is taking place. After that switch on the camera, go to self time mode again, remain in B mode and press the shutter. This time shutter will remain open much longer. Just now tried again and I got ISO 800, 60 sec exposure. It is repeatable now with my camera.

 

And yes, the noise is acceptable to me with dark frame subtraction, therefore I also don't understand why they will limit the exposure in normal operation. I am posting m,y milkyway pic below with 1:1 crop. This is ISO 800, 60 sec with 28mm cron ASPH. In the crop there is only chroma noise reduction. Luminance and sharpening is left 0 in LR5.

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1:1 crop

[jmahto]

one more 1:1 crop

 

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[jto555]

Yes. switch off the camera while the countdown is taking place. After that switch on the camera, go to self time mode again, remain in B mode and press the shutter. This time shutter will remain open much longer. Just now tried again and I got ISO 800, 60 sec exposure. It is repeatable now with my camera.

 

And yes, the noise is acceptable to me with dark frame subtraction, therefore I also don't understand why they will limit the exposure in normal operation. I am posting m,y milkyway pic below with 1:1 crop. This is ISO 800, 60 sec with 28mm cron ASPH. In the crop there is only chroma noise reduction. Luminance and sharpening is left 0 in LR5.

exp_FULL_20150906pt_reyes_phototrip-1005205.JPG

 

1:1 crop

exp_FULL_20150906pt_reyes_phototrip-1005205-2.JPG

exp_FULL_20150906pt_reyes_phototrip-1005205-3.JPG

I tried that and all I got was 1/45 sec! Darn it!

[jmahto]

I tried that and all I got was 1/45 sec! Darn it!

You have to simulate dark condition by covering lens or shoot in the night sky. I have never got 1/45 sec for dark condition. Either normally or by this process. Seems quite unusual.

[jaques]

I just tried it- and I got 32 seconds! Using a lens cap. Whilst it isn't 60 - technically the camera isn't supposed to be able to do 32 seconds at ISO 800 is it?

 

this glitch seems to have a somewhat random element?

[jmahto]

I just tried it- and I got 32 seconds! Using a lens cap. Whilst it isn't 60 - technically the camera isn't supposed to be able to do 32 seconds at ISO 800 is it?

 

this glitch seems to have a somewhat random element?

The limit for 800 is 16sec I guess. In this hack I think it meters light and adjust the shutter duration accordingly which can be bigger than 16sec. If there is a light leak in the cap then it stops short of 60sec. Best way to test is to go out and shoot a dark sky. Edited October 29, 2015 by jmahto

[jaques]

the lens cap I used is very snug fitting- I doubt there was a light leak. Interesting I got 32 seconds: exactly double what you say is supposed to be possible.

 

p.s. I just tried once more- this time I covered the front of the camera under a pillow- with lens cap- and got 16 seconds

[jmahto]

I have a feeling that it also depends on when do you interrupt the count down (with lens covered as if outside in dark). I am doing it around 7-8 sec. The camera has to be in B mode ALL the time during both shutter actuations. In any case it is indeed weird. 

[rramesh]

60 seconds max, 30 seconds @ iso 400. As set with cable release locked and set to continuous the camera will repeatedly shoot 30 second exposures until either the cable is unlocked or the battery runs out, this is how astrophotography can be done with the m240.

However limited, it's simplicity is advantageous and can be used for star trails and milky way images.

 

Very interesting. 

 

Moderator should post this under FAQ if not already there.

[david strachan]

Get an M8...they expose to 500 seconds.

cheers  Dave S

 

PS but film is still best for very long exposures..no lumpy trails and uneven background full of noise

Edited October 31, 2015 by david strachan

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[darylgo]

Get an M8...they expose to 500 seconds.

cheers  Dave S

 

PS but film is still best for long exposures..no lumpy trails and uneven background full of noise

Dave,

 

That is good to know, and on the other end of the spectrum iirc the M8 (not M8u or M8.2) has an 1/8000 sec, all other digital M bodies are 1/4000 second.

 

re: film....if only it was easier to deal with, digital has spoiled me with it's immediacy and ease of post processing, nonetheless I am inclined to shoot some film next time, it is not difficult to set up an additional camera and let it shoot.