I realy hope the SL is not the end of the M line. Or is this a 1970 remark?

[Ecaton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

This one is not for me but the good news is how Leica is catching up in the electronics department, they started this with the Q and seem to bring it to another level with the SL. So there is hope for the next generation M.

[dkCambridgeshire]

It fills a gap on the Portfolio, but doesn't that miss the Leica point which is differentiation ?

 

Whats innovative, what's unique ?  I would only be interested if I had a number of non M Leica lenses and felt the need for one solution and missed my old DSLR which I don't !

 

The S has a place the M is the precious 911, needing care with evolution. Smaller high quality other solutions make some sense, but this doesn't attract me, if it was a small S and offered something to position it as such, 24mp doesn't suggest that's the case. Why not offer a square sensor expanding utilising more more coverage of ff lenses or something different.

 

Can someone tell me what Leicas product strategy is ? Is the SL simply a gap filler and to reduce customers wanting an R replacement staying happy ?

 

Leica should differentiate IMO this is yet more dilution isn't it. Or should I have my breakfast n stop being a grumpy old man....

 

 

It's the best mirrorless FF camera available … and the 4K video should produce some interesting stills results. And it's part of the T roadmap. And high megapixels are not so important. 

 

dunk

[luigi bertolotti]

It fills a gap on the Portfolio, but doesn't that miss the Leica point which is differentiation ?

 

Whats innovative, what's unique ?  I would only be interested if I had a number of non M Leica lenses and felt the need for one solution and missed my old DSLR which I don't !

 

The S has a place the M is the precious 911, needing care with evolution. Smaller high quality other solutions make some sense, but this doesn't attract me, if it was a small S and offered something to position it as such, 24mp doesn't suggest that's the case. Why not offer a square sensor expanding utilising more more coverage of ff lenses or something different.

 

Can someone tell me what Leicas product strategy is ? Is the SL simply a gap filler and to reduce customers wanting an R replacement staying happy ?

 

Leica should differentiate IMO this is yet more dilution isn't it. Or should I have my breakfast n stop being a grumpy old man....

A square sensor would have meant :

 

1) A move outside the Leica tradition of 2x3 size (kept also in the S line)

2) A bigger body and probably bigger lenses

3) Probable impossibility to use M and R lenses - crop mode only.

 

In conclusion, it would have been a sort of MF alternative to S, competing in the same niche market (where they have also the Sinar offering...)

 

But, I agree that I would have expected something more differentiated... I mean, I concede that this can be, at this moment, the best FF mirrorless camera... it has ALL the essential features right in place for a pro camera (excellent EVF, sealing, smart AF, rapid multiple shots, dual card...) but have the vague feel that they haven't added something really SMART and INNOVATIVE (btw, I haven't idea of what could be this "something"...  )

[Leicaiste]

I am really pleased with this announcement.

 

Finally an easily usable Leica solution for R lenses and a great solution for M lenses.

 

Between both lens systems one can cover 15 to 800 mm with heavy lenses or 15 to 135 mm with light lenses. Or a perfect mix with both systems.

 

I know there are other solutions but the SL is the only one that was designed from the start to use R and M lenses.

 

I hope that the R adapter will make use of the ROM's.

 

If not the L adapter's 6 bits staked on the R for M adapter will permit to inform manually the camera of the lens in use. They could also add 6 bits coding to the R adapter.

 

I have two grief : the design (look) of the camera and the lack of IS in camera.

 

The latest and the availability of the R adapter postponed to Fall 2016 make me wonder if Leica really want us to use the R lenses.

 

The postponing of the R adapter, when Leica only offer one SL lens, is otherwise difficult to understand.

[IWC Doppel]

A square sensor would have meant :

 

1) A move outside the Leica tradition of 2x3 size (kept also in the S line)

2) A bigger body and probably bigger lenses

3) Probable impossibility to use M and R lenses - crop mode only.

 

In conclusion, it would have been a sort of MF alternative to S, competing in the same niche market (where they have also the Sinar offering...)

 

But, I agree that I would have expected something more differentiated... I mean, I concede that this can be, at this moment, the best FF mirrorless camera... it has ALL the essential features right in place for a pro camera (excellent EVF, sealing, smart AF, rapid multiple shots, dual card...) but have the vague feel that they haven't added something really SMART and INNOVATIVE (btw, I haven't idea of what could be this "something"...  )

 

The square sensor was to possible offer the mapping of a round lens on to a square pad that would allow you to adjust the frame from 3:2 to 1:1 and end up with more pixel density on square images. Lenses the same (I am presuming that the lens performance is symmetrical and hence from centre to lens edge the performance is the same in any direction from centre). Probably a silly idea tbh but a large DSLR without the reflex isn't inspirational to me

[IWC Doppel]

It's the best mirrorless FF camera available … and the 4K video should produce some interesting stills results. And it's part of the T roadmap. And high megapixels are not so important. 

 

dunk

 

But it's very large, very expensive and the world wants smaller in most cases. Whilst I agree with the pixel point to the point of ensuring quality outweighs quantity, it hasn't moved on from the M240 in quantity terms. I'd pick up a second hand 'S' if I was compromised with the need for increased quality over size.

 

I'm sure it's build will be steller, it look beautifully built from the pictures I have seen, for me it's a gap filled in the range that was a historic gap not a current gap ? 

[mjh]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

for me it's a gap filled in the range that was a historic gap not a current gap ?

The gap left by the demise of the R system was never filled. There were many here clamouring for an FF system camera that was not a rangefinder and this is it.

[IkarusJohn]

It's very difficult to filter through all this. For years, posters were concerned that a new system like this would impact on the M, and now posters are complaining it's not M like enough. I don't get it.

 

If we discount the non-system cameras, we have

• the T - who knows what will happen with this, but I suspect sharing the same mount as the SL, the APS-C version is safe
• the M - it's a compact rangefinder. Small excellent lenses, mature system and on its own in its own market. The 911 comparison is apposite. Consider this, had the M(240) not been an R solution, and an upgrade of the M9 offered instead (ie, more like the move from S(006) to S(007)) what would your reactions have been?  The core of the M is its optical view finder, and delightful small manual focus lenses
• the S - a dSLR with a lovely big sensor, AF, video. A fabulous camera, but hard to justify

I can see where the SL fits, no problem at all. Threat to the M?  I don't think so.  A7r2?  Sony and others will always make cheaper products. The SL distances itself from the Sony. Some will always prefer the Japanese alternatives (it happens already with M lenses on Ricohs, Fujis and Sonys), and Leica will always charge more for doing less, but doing it better. 

 

As for the Canikon d810/5D3, they are SLRs. Mature, but with a difficult future. Leica thinks the SL is part of the future (EVF, AF and a good sensor with great IQ, rather than problematic spec chasing), and like an All Black 1st 5 it has shot through the gap into open space.  Sony has a toy and Canikon are nowhere to be seen. Sure Leica has only one lens at this stage. I couldn't imagine Leica having half a dozen lenses on offer from day one. That was never realistic. At the moment, it's a body which works with every Leica lens and a starter lens to get the system going. 

 

This is a long game. At the moment, it's a body priced pretty much at the same place as the M body, and waay cheaper than the S(007). 

 

Cheers

John

[luigi bertolotti]

The square sensor was to possible offer the mapping of a round lens on to a square pad that would allow you to adjust the frame from 3:2 to 1:1 and end up with more pixel density on square images. Lenses the same (I am presuming that the lens performance is symmetrical and hence from centre to lens edge the performance is the same in any direction from centre). Probably a silly idea tbh but a large DSLR without the reflex isn't inspirational to me

Ok...   math says that this would lead  (to use M/R lenses) to a 30x30 sensor (30,5 x 30,5 , better) with 26 Mpixels on the current sensor... someway intriguing, no doubt... free choice of square/landscape/portrait without change of handling... with a proper LCD and EVF... same mount... and maybe the body could even be made not so much higher...  intriguing, but a damn ODDITY in the market... who knows ?   Thinking of how much, years ago, professionals were TIED to their 6x6 Hasselblads (or Rolleiflex...) it could result in a breaking and succesful move... a risk that Leica has probably decided not to afford : but I admit that yours is not a silly idea... 

[thighslapper]

I am really pleased with this announcement.

 

Finally an easily usable Leica solution for R lenses and a great solution for M lenses.

 

Between both lens systems one can cover 15 to 800 mm with heavy lenses or 15 to 135 mm with light lenses. Or a perfect mix with both systems.

 

I know there are other solutions but the SL is the only one that was designed from the start to use R and M lenses.

 

I hope that the R adapter will make use of the ROM's.

 

If not the L adapter's 6 bits staked on the R for M adapter will permit to inform manually the camera of the lens in use. They could also add 6 bits coding to the R adapter.

 

I have two grief : the design (look) of the camera and the lack of IS in camera.

 

The latest and the availability of the R adapter postponed to Fall 2016 make me wonder if Leica really want us to use the R lenses.

 

The postponing of the R adapter, when Leica only offer one SL lens, is otherwise difficult to understand.

 

 

You can still use the existing T-M adapter and stick an M-R on that ...... not particularly elegant but one reviewer said this combo brought up the R pick list on the camera menu when fitted ...... so it's no big deal ...... if you already have both (which I have).

 

R lenses never had ..... or will have 6 bit coding, so the camera just needs to recognise that it has an R lens attached ..... thats all.....

[cirke]

it is very good for the next M in September 2016

[Guest camera man]

The SL may be here but my film MP and Ilford Delta 100 stock is head and shoulders above it.

[IWC Doppel]

Ok...   math says that this would lead  (to use M/R lenses) to a 30x30 sensor (30,5 x 30,5 , better) with 26 Mpixels on the current sensor... someway intriguing, no doubt... free choice of square/landscape/portrait without change of handling... with a proper LCD and EVF... same mount... and maybe the body could even be made not so much higher...  intriguing, but a damn ODDITY in the market... who knows ?   Thinking of how much, years ago, professionals were TIED to their 6x6 Hasselblads (or Rolleiflex...) it could result in a breaking and succesful move... a risk that Leica has probably decided not to afford : but I admit that yours is not a silly idea... 

 

Okay, a crazier idea. A 4.4Mp viewfinder on the new M, nah make it 6Mp. With the focus peaking as required. So not a true rangefinder in the sense of a mechanical link between lens and view, but the ability to see the whole image with any lens with clever focus zooming to aid focus as well. A menu on the back but no need for a thick heavy review screen as the viewfinder is that good. So back to M6 size and weight. Plus the lovely 30.5 x 30.5 sensor idea. So real leading edge options for square, Portrait, landscape etc

 

Then they could produce a purists classic rangefinder with the classic viewfinder and the latest,sensor and processing engine. Again M6 size please

[gberger]

This just makes me wish for an A La Carte version of the M-A

[algrove]

I have been happily using many R lenses on my M240 platform cameras with EVF. They MF on the M. The EXIF data records the lens for me. So how can this SL be considered a breakthrough for R lens use? The R lenses will MF on the SL. It will record EXIF data. It it a breakthrough just because of a 4,4M EVF? Do I want to carry more weight just for a better EVF than using my M for R lenses? Not me.

[mjh]

I have been happily using many R lenses on my M240 platform cameras with EVF. They MF on the M. The EXIF data records the lens for me. So how can this SL be considered a breakthrough for R lens use? The R lenses will MF on the SL. It will record EXIF data. It it a breakthrough just because of a 4,4M EVF? Do I want to carry more weight just for a better EVF than using my M for R lenses? Not me.

If you don’t see the advantage then that’s OK. There is no mission to convert M owners with R lenses to the new faith.

[lct]

This new faith must be strong to convince amateurs of auto-magnification, which is lost on the SL601, especially given the poor ergonomics of the SL which does not allow manual magnification by pressing the thumbwheel, the joystick or a button under the right thumb so far...

[IkarusJohn]

I think I'll save the poor ergonomics judgment till I have further information. So far, the only comment I've read is Jono saying he had no problem pressing the BL button with the camera to his eye.

[lct]

I think I'll save the poor ergonomics judgment till I have further information. So far, the only comment I've read is Jono saying he had no problem pressing the BL button with the camera to his eye.

 

The BL button being on the bottom left (14), Jono could hardly press it with his right thumb while keeping his index finger on the shutter release. I don't know if the thumbwheel (9) is clickable but either the latter of the joystick (7) should be programmed to trigger image magnification. I just need to press the thumbwheel of my X-E2 by comparison.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[almoore]

As for the Canikon d810/5D3, they are SLRs. Mature, but with a difficult future. Leica thinks the SL is part of the future (EVF, AF and a good sensor with great IQ, rather than problematic spec chasing), and like an All Black 1st 5 it has shot through the gap into open space.  Sony has a toy and Canikon are nowhere to be seen. Sure Leica has only one lens at this stage. I couldn't imagine Leica having half a dozen lenses on offer from day one. That was never realistic

 

The Sony A7 series cameras are a long way from being 'toys'. The original A7R has a horrible shutter release action, but from the A7S onwards these are really credible and capable cameras being used daily by successful working photographers. They're affordable (that matters if you're going after the professional market), compact, have great sensors and remarkably good and well priced lenses. At the point Canon and Nikon enter the FF mirrorless fray (and they will) it's a reasonable assumption that they'll do so convincingly from day one, so by the time Leica's single currently announced non-zoom option hits the market at the end of next year the mirrorless pool has every chance of being even more competitive than it is today.

 

I agree that it would be very difficult for a small company to have an extensive range of lenses for a new mount from day one, but without that range it's absurd for Leica to bill this camera as a professional option. From a photographers point of view, while the Sony line-up of lenses is still in its infancy, they already offer three high quality lenses in the 35mm focal length, a fantastic 55, a compact/affordable 28 f2, a macro, plus a trio of zooms that take you from 16 to 200mm. Leica are currently offering nothing more than an insanely oversized 24-90 with an equally bloated price tag, a similarly comical long zoom and a 50 the size of a bucket at the end of 2016.

 

I have no idea how well other equally unconvincing Leica cameras (the Ts and Xs) sell (it's entirely conceivable that there are enough safari-going dentists and cashed-up Chinese party members to make cameras that are unattractive to photographers commercially viable), but it would be nothing short of miraculous for the SL to emerge as a contender in the professional or serious amateur market.

 

The Q showed that Leica is perfectly capable of producing credible and (relatively) affordable cameras in the digital age, but the SL is Leica at its deluded worst. EVFs and mirrorless certainly represent the future, but I suspect the SL will be no more an M5-style footnote in Leica's history.