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John McMaster

S2 sensor corrosion

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Relms I assume you have been in touch with Leica about this? My S2 had a crack on the sensor cover glass and Leica replaced the sensor altogether for free after a wait of about 3 months. I did nudge them every few weeks or so. Maybe thar helped.

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Good to hear Leica has beefed up repair services. My monochrom just went in for sensor repair/replacement. That makes all 3 CCD cameras (S2, M9 & MM) that have required this service.

 

As much as I love these cameras, I'm contemplating selling all three and getting a M262 and a X1D. I'll probably have a few months to think this over as Leica will have my MM for a while.

 

Of course there is a perverse part of me that would enjoy:

 

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Same here, my M9 should be back fairly soon.... The Hasselblad is not taking my interest from the S2 so far, lens do not look to be as good for my usage.

 

john

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Hi John, 

The S lenses are truly spectacular, sharp and fast for medium format.  

I'm disappointed about my sensor issue, seems unusual for a 9 month old (very expensive) camera to need the sensor replaced and a 4 month wait will be painful. Maybe enough to push me back to Hasselblad for my medium format work.

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Relms I assume you have been in touch with Leica about this? My S2 had a crack on the sensor cover glass and Leica replaced the sensor altogether for free after a wait of about 3 months. I did nudge them every few weeks or so. Maybe thar helped.

Alan, I frequently nudge and nag my dealer, but to no avail. It's ironic that I thought that by accepting the dealer's offer to coordinate the repair I would get faster service. We see now how well that worked. The dealer can't seem to get any answers, either, and he appears to be as frustrated as I am with Leica's abysmal service.

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Is Leica replacing the sensors with a new generation version, as the M CCD? My M9 has to go back for the repair, and now potentially my S 006 as well. I saw spots on last group of S images that look suspiciously like are from corrosion. I purchased both cameras from Leica Miami. Seems I recall that Leica warranty on certified cameras provides for a loaner for disabled S bodies. True?

David

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David, as I understand it, the original sensors were sourced from Kodak, but as Kodak emerged from bankruptcy in 2013 it sold off several of its divisions, including the digital imaging division, and while the successor company agreed to honor Kodak's commitment to replace defective sensors used in Leica cameras, that commitment has become overwhelming due to the proliferation of the corrosion. I was told by my Leica dealer that the long wait times are due to the fact that Leiica cannot get the parts it needs to make the replacements.

 

Leica, if you are listening, it is time for you to offer an alternative and immediate solution. Forget replacing the defective sensors and offer attractive upgrade options to those who are experiencing this problem. This would go a long way toward stopping the corrosion of the company's reputation that is worsening each day. Do the right thing, and do the thing right by offering this option immediately. Your loyal customer base deserves better than that which you are offering them now.

-Robert

Edited by relms

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Robert, thanks for yours. But again, do we know if the sensor replacements are v1 or have the new glass cover that appears to have resolved the M sensor issue.

Are the S sensor issues destined to be as ubiquitous as with the M? Perhaps a story yet unfolding.

Cheers.

David

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I understand from my dealer that the replacement sensors will have the new glass cover.

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I am sorry to report that the sensor corrosion issue extends beyond the S2 to the S006.  As stated above, I discovered back in January of this year that the sensor on my S2-P had early onset of corrosion issues. Following the recommendation of my Leica dealer, I sent the camera to him for forwarding to Leica for the free sensor replacement, and I purchased a certified pre-owned S006 to use in the interim, knowing that the repair could take several months - too long to go without the incomparable image quality of the S2 to which I had become accustomed.  I had other cameras that I could have used, and have used, in the interim - an SL, an MM246, and a Canon 1Ds III, but it was the S2 that was my go-to camera.  Obviously, I could have made do with what I had, but I chose not to, and I acquired the S006, thinking I would sell it when I got the S2 back into my hands. 

 

While processing a few images taken this past weekend, I noticed that I was having to remove more "dust bunnies" than normal, and so I got out the Rocket blower, attempting to dislodge them, and then I took a test shot of the blue sky, loaded it into Lightroom, and scrolled around at 100% magnification.  There were several suspicious looking spots, looking like amoeba under a microscope.  Fearing the worst, I sent the RAW file to my dealer, and he confirmed that, indeed, the sensor shows signs of corrosion.  So here we go again... Leica will replace the sensor, but the question is how long it will take them to do it.

 

It has been six months now since I sent the S2 out for repair, and finally!, a few days ago I learned that it has now moved up in the queue, and that it is actually being repaired, not simply waiting on a shelf in a warehouse.  So... I get one back into my hands, and relinquish the other.   I applaud Leica for replacing defective sensors, whether in warranty or out.  But six months?!  Very frustrating.

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II purchased a certified pre-owned S006 to use in the interim, knowing that the repair could take several months 

 

My 006 is a certified camera as well. I believe it came with the Passport coverage which, if memory serves, provides for a loaner. Can anyone confirm?

And relms, would you be kind enough to post your test images so that I may compare with the ones I have taken.

Obliged,

David

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My 006 is a certified camera as well. I believe it came with the Passport coverage which, if memory serves, provides for a loaner. Can anyone confirm?

 

 

Leica hasn't had the Passport program for cameras sold in the US since 2008.  There is a Protection Plan (not the standard warranty) available for the S system, and was included for newly sold 006 cameras, or equivalents, e.g., ones designated as QE-2, for a period of 3 years.  If this applied to yours, you would have received the leaflet and all related info within your packaging.  It does carry a loaner provision.  Any time left on the Plan for 'used' cameras would transfer ownership, I believe.

 

One of the ways Leica has been able to cut back on list prices for some models (like the SE-006) has been to make the 3 year plan optional and available at extra cost.  Lenses have their own Protection Plan provisions.  

 

One is well advised to carefully check this out in advance, as purchasing additional years can add extensively to the price.  When I researched S system prices, I found that many dealers were often confused themselves about terms and conditions.  Leica Miami (where you may have shopped) was up to speed.

 

Jeff

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My Monochrom and S2-P were both about two months, the M9 has been away for just two weeks shy of that time....

 

john

 

Got notification from UPS that it is leaving Germany today, so just under two months for the M9.

 

john

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David,

 

Here is a 100% crop of a small section of the DNG file that my dealer used to confirm corrosion.  This crop was taken from the bottom edge of the image.  There are a couple of similar spots elsewhere on the sensor, but this crop depicts the largest concentration of them. 

Edited by relms

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Now that I have confirmation that both my S2-P and S006 have sensor corrosion, I am pondering my options:

  1. Have them both repaired, and then sell the S2-P and keep the S006;
  2. Skip the repair, upgrade to two S007s, keep one and sell the other:
  3. Have them both repaired, sell both, and shoot with the SL and M246 that I already own;
  4. Sell everything and move to Hasselblad of some other system.

I have been offered $6,000 and $8,000 for the S2 and S006, respectively, toward the purchase of two S007s; therefore, I am leaning toward Option 2, above, which seems to make the most economic sense.  I should be able to sell one of the new S007s and net, say, $14,800, which would leave my bank account $5,000 lighter, but with a new S007 in hand.  I love the S system; therefore, I will probably stick with it.  Nothing I have used compares to the image quality, the handling, and the overall joy and anticipation I feel each time I pick up the camera - intangibles that do not readily lend themselves to an objective comparison leading to a decision.  It's difficult.

 

My one hesitation in this strategy is my concern about what may come out of Photokina, but the preponderance of thinking from what I read and hear is that there will be no new S or SL, which makes sense since both are relatively new, and I would hope Leica would not be inclined to alienate its S and SL customer base by drastically diminishing their investments in those two systems - at least not this soon.

 

I would be interested in others' thoughts and comments.

 

-Robert

Edited by relms

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Guest satrycon

even if you wait a few more weeks for PK, things wont get released immediately.. option 3 makes sense financially?

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even if you wait a few more weeks for PK, things wont get released immediately.. option 3 makes sense financially?

 

I agree that Option 3 makes the most sense financially, especially when I add the revenue I would receive from the sale of four S lenses (24, 70, 100 and 120CS), but now that I have tasted the medium format Kool-Aid, I am addicted.  

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Guest satrycon

in which case perhaps go for option 3 but sell only the bodies not the lenses..and see whats announced..and when it actually releases

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David,

 

Here is a 100% crop of a small section of the DNG file that my dealer used to confirm corrosion.  This crop was taken from the bottom edge of the image.  There are a couple of similar spots elsewhere on the sensor, but this crop depicts the largest concentration of them. 

Many thanks. While my test images do not show the interconnected string of artifacts, there are several specks in a concentrated area that have a dark center with a lighter halo - like a fuzzy ring around a black moon. I tried to post the image which was rejected. I will try again, perhaps in a different format. 

Sorry to hear about your struggles. We Leica owners do suffer for our devotion to these devices. Perhaps like those "high maintenance" people in our lives that we love despite the frustrations. Because when they are good they are very, very good.

Cheers

David

Edited by Deliberate1

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