Leica Q vs DSLR vs Leica M9

[Tiptop2000]

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Many seem to have come to this forum from their ownership of a Fuji camera in some guise and I'm no different.

I've had the original X100 since it came out and its a beautiful camera. Its just, even with the software upgrades, extremely poor at focusing quickly.

 

With that I am looking to move to another camera and thought I'd share my dilemma. I mainly shoot street scenes (Dubai, London, NYC), landscapes (Peak District and Lakes) and my family (wife and a 15-month old toddler that the X100 simply can't capture in movement). I've been toying with the idea of moving to a DSLR and have been considering a Canon (6D) or Nikon (D750). Amazing cameras that they will be I'm just worried that I won't take them out as they are too heavy.

 

I then stumbled upon all of the amazing reviews for the Leica Q and wondered what everyone thought of this camera for my use. I am not a seasoned professional that needs a million controls for my imagery.

I want a good tool that simply works, ala Apple. The Q is a lot of money for me (not for Leica) so its a considerable investment. The other alternative is a used M9 with lens, so as I change the body when a new improved one comes out in 5-10 years, but I still have the glass that I've invested in.

 

Any thoughts, ideas or builds from you would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sturkel]

Good Day,  from your comments it sounds like the Q would be a huge investment and would limit you to the 28mm lens.  May I suggest you look into the Type 109 Leica small, compact, Micro 4/3 and a decent zoom.  This camera focus extremely well (Panasonic technology) and I highly recommend as a pocket travel camera.

 

Cheers

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[Tiptop2000]

Thanks for that rapid response. I like to use my legs to zoom and am keen on a full-frame as it feels like the right step on from the X100. 

I also have a Ricoh GR film camera and the Q feels like a good alternative to that in terms of digital. 

[jaapv]

You mention quite a few diverse things here, a DSLR, an M9 with lenses, the Q, quite a number of people will suggest something else again.

I would suggest that you get it quite clear in your mind what you longer-term ideas about photography are. After all, the amount of money involved suggests that you will be into your chosen camera for a longer time.

The Q sounds like a good choice for what you need it for, but should you choose to develop your photography to the extent that you will want to use more than one focal length, you will have to buy something like an M9 (or 240 after the new offerings of Leica hit the market) plus lenses anyway.

This would either mean buying a used M9 and some Zeiss/Voigtlander/Leica lenses (for instance Zeiss Biogon-C 35 and Elmarit-M 90) as an addition to the Q or buying the M9 straight away.

It would be less rational to buy a DSLR as an addition to the Q because it would be more postprocessing work to match the output.

[sturkel]

Well based on your last comment, and asking for FF camera, you may want to consider waiting till Oct and see what Leica will announce. 

[Tiptop2000]

Thanks both, I think I love the simplicity of the X100 and thats why I'm drawn to a Leica Q over a DSLR (perhaps too bulky, too many menus, etc.). 

Perhaps I should be thinking Leica Q (or whatever the announcement is in Oct!? Intriguing) for now and then go into a used M9 with the lenses. If I could keep post-processing in Lightroom to a minimum that would be great.

My aim was to further develop my craft and then move into different lenses. So that is why I was thinking M9. Appreciate your help and advice so thank you for that.

[j0e_5]

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Firs post here. Thought I should shim in since I've been in, sort of, the same situation. I was also once the proud owner of the X100. Sold that one and ventured in to the world of DSLR. Bought the Nikon D610, 35mm, 50mm and 70-200mm. Had this setup for little more than a year, when I started realising that I'm not taking any new photos (a part from the ones I took with my iPhone 6). Which got me thinking: why is this? Simple answer, to bulky, and to complicated (for me at least). So just recently I sold all my gear, and was happy that DSLR photo gear here in Hong Kong isn't overly expensive, which meant that I didn't loose to much when I parted with the whole lot on Ebay.

 

Before making the decision to sell my DSLR gear, I knew I wanted a Q. I put myself on the waiting list, and started waiting. The weeks went by, and during these weeks, I started spending more and more time on this forum, as well as on other Leica friendly websites/threads. The more I read, the more information I got, the more "educated" I felt. So after 4 weeks of waiting for that Q (not long...), I decided to take my name of the list. Instead I started using my wife's D-Lux. But instead of having it all in auto, I put everything in manual mode. A mode that I was far, far from used to. But slowly I started to learn a few tricks here and there. Reason for doing all this? Simply because I had made up my mind that I wanted a Leica M, and also that I wanted to go back to the roots of photography. Meaning, I wanted to think before I hit that trigger. Stop and think what I was doing, instead of shooting of 10-15 shots in auto mode just because I could do so.

 

Secretly, I've been wanting an M for many, many years. However, I've always been afraid of all the manual settings = the most scary thing of all: no autofocus. Hence my initial feeling to go for the Q. But now, after about a month with the D-Lux in "manual mode", I can say that I feel more than confident to finally get my first M. I just love to have the freedom to do want I want, and not what the camera believes that I want. Yes, of course I know that you can get all these things with a DSLR, or pretty much any other camera for that matter. But again, that M is something I always wanted to have. And now when I have the knowledge, at least a few more procent , plus a bit more confidence, I strongly feel it's time to hit that button and make my investment.

 

Personally, I would really like to have a Monochrom (246), because I tend to focus on B&W work. Unfortunately, that's is out of my budget at the moment. So instead I'm targeting a used M9 or preferably a M-E. I know "mine" will hit the market tomorrow, next week, or in a month, give or take. I'm in no rush. This is, also for me, a big investment, so I don't want to rush in to anything. I pretty much know what I want, and I'm going to make sure that I get it!

 

Cheers,

Joe

Edited September 22, 2015 by j0e_5

[jaapv]

Welcome You could have a look at the Monochrom 1 It is not that far behind the 246 and I feel that below ISO 3200 I prefer the files.

[j0e_5]

Thank you, Japp. Much appreciated!

 

Yeah, I've also looked in to the Monochrom 1. The problem is that I'm having, at the moment, a bit of hard time finding one that would "fit my wishes" = condition vs. price. An equation that, far from seldom, is a very tricky one to navigate.

 

But yes, it's definitely on my list. And since, again, I'm in no rush, perhaps I get lucky and the one with my name on it will soon hit the market!

 

Thanks again for your warm welcome.

 

Cheers,
Joe

[asiafish]

Thank you, Japp. Much appreciated!

 

Yeah, I've also looked in to the Monochrom 1. The problem is that I'm having, at the moment, a bit of hard time finding one that would "fit my wishes" = condition vs. price. An equation that, far from seldom, is a very tricky one to navigate.

 

But yes, it's definitely on my list. And since, again, I'm in no rush, perhaps I get lucky and the one with my name on it will soon hit the market!

 

Thanks again for your warm welcome.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

If you are mostly interested in black and white the M Monochrom is much better than the M9.  I should know, I own the original Monochrom and even after almost three years it is still my prized possession.  I also have an M-E which is terrific for color, but doesn't see as much use as the Monochrom.

[Tiptop2000]

Any other thoughts on the original post? It seems Leica have all bases covered. 

Spotted this over lunch from Mirrorless rumors:

 

Coming soon: An interchangeable lens version of the Leica Q, with AF lenses. Due out in time for Photo Plus, in October.

This will not be the replacement to the M240 but rather a new system with new AF lenses, bulkier than the Q or M lines, with an EVF and lighter build despite the bulk. Sensor will be similar, if not the same, as the Q’s sensor. Anticipate that it will come bundled with a 50 mm f/2 Summicron lens and retail around $8,000 USD. Build quality will be comparable to the M line and Q line…much of the Q’s tech, including in body image stabilization, electronic shutter, and built in high res EVF, will be included. The camera may harken in design to Leicaflex bodies of years gone by…like a bulkier XT-1 with more simplified layout. This may end up being called the new “R” camera and may well take old R lenses via adapter, along with new AF R lenses. Not sure that it will take M lenses.

Anticipate that Leica will begin to simplify options, but canceling the T line and possibly the X-line. What will remain are the DLux, VLux, M, Q, S lines…

[sturkel]

This is what I was referring to with respect to waiting till Oct.  The issue will be long lead times on any new cameras.  All depends on your needs and budget. 

[Tiptop2000]

I dug it out after you mentioned it. An interesting proposition but I am still not sure I'd move away from an M9 if I go down that road.

The Q might come down a little in price with the new announcement if I do go that way. 

[Adrian Lord]

Sounds like fast Auto  focus is a key requirement for you so that rules out M9 ?

[Tiptop2000]

Thanks for that, I've been reading up on the M9 and I'd tend to agree that fast autofocus is a pre-requisite. I'm going to wait until next month to see what this new Q with an interchangeable lens looks like. Although, that said I might still go for the Q for its simplicity and just use my legs to zoom. Was wondering if the Q might drop in price in the run up to the festive period. Spotted a price reduction in Australia so you never know. 

[jaapv]

You can always drop 1500$ on an used M8 and Biogon-C 35/2.8 to find out if you like the experience.

[dangorange]

It would be weird for Leica to drop the price on the Q so quickly after it came out, not to mention that you can't even buy it right now due to back orders. This new rumored system sounds like it will have a different style body and most likely different controls, and if the article is accurate, it will be double the price(with an included bundled lens) 

 

It makes sense to keep a Q line with maybe other focal length choices as people have asked with the same controls, macro function, awesome simplicity and hopefully some tweaks via firmware updates etc. For double the price, if you must have interchangeable lens options, AF, and full frame, mirror less, there will be this new SL line. 

 

But I can't image the price of the Q coming down until a few years down the road, or the used market adjusts itself as the Q becomes more widely available. At the moment it's sell consistently over retail, and for brand new ones, quite a bit so. 

 

I'm very happy with choosing the Q, the 28mm lens is incredible. The picture quality is jaw dropping, like many other full frame systems out there. I love that I feel like I'm using a film camera again, but it's digital and stunning quality. 

[Tiptop2000]

Hi Jaap,

 

I love that idea. See if I like it and then move on from there.

What are your thoughts on the Q? 

Thanks

[Tiptop2000]

I've fallen for Leica, and I've just got to make a choice. I can get the Q through the business and take off the VAT so thats the incentive there.
Jaap's suggestion of an M8 and Biogon-C 35/2.8 for a low entry point is also an exciting one. I think a price drop was more wishful thinking.

If I recall correctly Fuji dropped the price of the X100 when other X series cameras came to market, but I appreciate that Fuji isn't Leica and the awesome reviews the Q is getting points to 'why would you'. 

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[jaapv]

Hi Jaap,

 

I love that idea. See if I like it and then move on from there.

What are your thoughts on the Q? 

 

Thanks

I think the Q is a marvellous camera, but a very specific one for the fixed lens. It is probably the most exciting Point and Shoot on the market, a street photographer's dream, but I would find it too limiting to carry as a single camera - but that is just me.