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Darn! Ruined a whole roll of film today because my reel skills suck.


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Darn it...how disappointing.

I shot a whole roll of Tri-x and when I went to develop it, I couldn't get it on the reel to save my life.

 

I have the plastic self threading reels from Paterson and normally I leave the leader out of the roll so that I can start it outside of the changing bag but I got over confident and didn't do that....well, I couldn't get the film on the reel. It finally got so bad I tried a metal reel and that was a bust also.

I got so frustrated that I just opened the changing bag and threw the whole thing in the trash.

 

 

To make matters worse, I had another roll of Kentmere 400 that I shot in my new Zorki 4 and I DID leave the leader out and was successful in getting it on the reel...but there was a camera malfunction and the whole roll was transparent!

Not a good day for film.

 

Never again am I going to be a hero and allow the tail to go all of the way into the cassette.

I can't imagine why no company has made an updated version of the Jobo 2400; the tank that you put the film cassette in, close it up, and it does all of the work in loading the reel for you.

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If I'm using a conventional tank and the leader is in the cassette, I simply use a bottle opener in my changing bag to take the end off the cassette (unless it's a home loaded one, where the end screws off). But for a daylight loading tank (Jobo 2400, Rondinax, Rondix) I need the leader out, and while the F6 will rewind a film and stop with the leader out, I have to put my ear to the back of a Leica and listen for the sound of the leader coming off the take up spool. I don't always succeed, so I

The Kaiser reels are much easier to load than the Patersons. The point of the film entry is huge and really easy to find and feed in to.   This lowered my frustration levels massively in home development to the point where I love the whole process. Before with the Paterson reels I was nervous every time.

Of course only water should be used for a 'stop bath' if you are using Diafine, not an acid stop as perhaps suggested in many guides.   All of this makes me think the OP is listening to too much advice from too many people while having too little experience of simply doing it right in the first place. Too much complication has set in before even modest results have been obtained. So go back to using ID-II or D-76, follow the Ilford guide, and don't listen to any more advice from anybody. An an

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rpavich, I admire your fortitude.

I well remember the trials & tribulations of the film era & that it entailed!

Not forgetting the darkroom a place full of wonder & magic!

I now really enjoy digital and can PP on my computer in comfort.. L

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Rpavich, for me no problem since I bought the "roll opener" film

that I put in the changing bag  at the same time than the Paterson tank.

http://www.photostock.fr/ouvreur-de-cartouche-135,fr,4,EXTRACT1.cfm

What a pleasure to develop yourself instead of being in front of his computer !

 

Good development and photos

Best

Henry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVF4rmAfXSA

Edited by Doc Henry
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If I'm using a conventional tank and the leader is in the cassette, I simply use a bottle opener in my changing bag to take the end off the cassette (unless it's a home loaded one, where the end screws off). But for a daylight loading tank (Jobo 2400, Rondinax, Rondix) I need the leader out, and while the F6 will rewind a film and stop with the leader out, I have to put my ear to the back of a Leica and listen for the sound of the leader coming off the take up spool. I don't always succeed, so I still have a leader retriever around for fishing it back out. It's tricky to use, but with practice it works pretty well.

 

Best advice is to take the film you just abandoned and practice loading a reel over and over again with your eyes closed. The other thing I found helpful was to use a pup-tent style of changing bag so that there is room and air - it takes longer for my hands to get damp with sweat if things don't go smoothly, which gives me more time to put it right. Once your hands sweat you're lost!

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I use a Patterson large changing bag.  On a couple of occasions when I've had difficulty feeding the film onto the reel (plastic Patterson), resulting in a growing level of frustration plus sweaty hands, I've dumped the film into the tank, put the lid on and pulled my hands out of the bag.  Sit-back, take a few deep breaths, dry my hands and start again...

 

I too hold the camera to my ear and listen closely for the sound of the leader coming-off the spool.  Then the canister is taken out of camera and the leader trimmed  so there is no risk of confusion as to exposed or not exposed.

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A trick with Paterson reels is to trim the film end, after cutting off the leader, with corners at about 45 degrees. This does seem to aid the feeding process and can be done in the bag if the end is in. 

To open cassettes I use the Kaiser piece of kit, needs a good thump but never fails, having said that it never works on an IXMOO though 

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kaiser-35mm-Film-Cassette-Opener/dp/B0009LYTZ2

 

(No I couldn't believe the price either)

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I disagree with the idea of keeping dragging the film through the light seal on the cassette, but a large changing bag that can be propped up internally, or better still,a changing tent, is the answer. I've said it before and it has been said again in this thread, practice with an old or ruined film in daylight with you eyes closed. Paterson reels have been around for decades and are still the staple for the majority of photographers, so don't be the guy who blames the equipment.

 

Steve

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I disagree with the idea of keeping dragging the film through the light seal on the cassette, but a large changing bag that can be propped up internally, or better still,a changing tent, is the answer. I've said it before and it has been said again in this thread, practice with an old or ruined film in daylight with you eyes closed. Paterson reels have been around for decades and are still the staple for the majority of photographers, so don't be the guy who blames the equipment.

 

Steve

 I'm definitely not blaming the equipment, I'm just bemoaning my poor skills 

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 I shot again today and this time made sure that the leader was out of the cassette and it was a breeze to get the film starting to load onto the reels before I went into the changing bag, everything went perfectly fine. 

Edited by rpavich
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The Kaiser reels are much easier to load than the Patersons. The point of the film entry is huge and really easy to find and feed in to.

 

This lowered my frustration levels massively in home development to the point where I love the whole process. Before with the Paterson reels I was nervous every time.

 

Yup. I'm using the Kaiser reels also. They're a dream to work with.

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Howdy - late to the party here but for what it's worth I had the exact same issue when I restarted film shooting. What fixed it for me was to trim the leader in a gentle curve (same really as the 2 x 45 degree cuts suggested above. Film now glide on and I've never had a failure since! Anyway, sound like you're sorted - enjoy!

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What a day.

 

I mentioned that we shot again and everything went fine right?

 

As we were developing our film (Diafine Tri-X 400 @ 1250) My wife says "don't we have to use fixer?"

 

I said (being the noob that I am) "The directions don't say anything about it....so no, I guess not"

And after about 2 hours of drying I started thinking...hmmm is that true? and so I searched Google and realized that we should have used fixer...arggg!

 

So I pulled the film down, re-threaded it onto the reel and did a fixer bath and re-rinse and rehung it!

 

Now full of dust and dog hair because of it.


Ey yi yi....live and learn

Edited by rpavich
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OMG

 

Developer => Stop => Fixer => Water rinse => Wetting agent

 

Always the same. And if you are in a hurry mark the bottles very clear and/or use the same colors to prevent any mismatch.

 

The most simple and safe way to load  a 35mm cassette: Film retriever and just end by end load the reel back from the cassette. A small dark room is the best and easiest way, then a tent then a changing bag.

Loading plastic reels they should be bone dry. You can föhn them shortly.

 

Good luck with the next films!

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Developer => Stop => Fixer => Water rinse => Wetting agent

 

 

 

Of course only water should be used for a 'stop bath' if you are using Diafine, not an acid stop as perhaps suggested in many guides.

 

All of this makes me think the OP is listening to too much advice from too many people while having too little experience of simply doing it right in the first place. Too much complication has set in before even modest results have been obtained. So go back to using ID-II or D-76, follow the Ilford guide, and don't listen to any more advice from anybody. An analogy would be that you need to stop crashing the car before you can pass your driving test.

 

Steve

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Of course only water should be used for a 'stop bath' if you are using Diafine, not an acid stop as perhaps suggested in many guides.

 

All of this makes me think the OP is listening to too much advice from too many people while having too little experience of simply doing it right in the first place. Too much complication has set in before even modest results have been obtained. So go back to using ID-II or D-76, follow the Ilford guide, and don't listen to any more advice from anybody. An analogy would be that you need to stop crashing the car before you can pass your driving test.

 

Steve

 

Good advice. The only thing I did when I started developing my own film was to use the massive dev chart app on my phone, and use the profiles available there for my film, developer and shooting settings. I then followed the steps perfectly and ignored everything I read on forums and other websites, and consistently got excellent results, with very minor deviations. The process is quite simply, really. But it can easily be overcomplicated if you start listening to what everyone is saying.

 

My advice is to drop the changing bag. Use a dark room at evening instead. Fumbling around with the hands in a changing bag is much more difficult than navigating in total darkness. Our brains adapt to the darkness, and it makes navigation much easier than fumbling around in a changing bag in bright daylight.

Edited by indergaard
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I recently had the same problem loading a reel with a real roll of film. I could do it fine with a dummy roll but as soon as I got to do it for real the pressure got to me I guess! I eventually managed but it took ages!

 

Tips I picked up:

Use a leader retriever (I tried about three different ones on the shop before I got one I could work every time

Trim the ends into a slight curve

Pinch the film slightly on the two edges when loading as it gives it a bit of rigidity

Close your eyes when it is in the bag, I don't know why but it makes it easier!

 

Good luck!

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My recent return to film supports the following:

 

Practice with a ruined film getting it into the reel without looking at it (I sat for an hour watching TV with Mrs H while doing this, much to her irritation)

 

Cut the leader as described above

 

Download and use the massive Dev app, plug in your film, speed, developer and it tells you what to do, including when and how long to agitate! Couldn't be more straight forward!

Good luck!

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