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TheGodParticle

Q or Q type FF body with interchangeable AF lenses?

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I doubt it will look anything like an R8 or R9 because that's the S territory but do you really thing they're ugly? I think they are some of the best looking SLRs ever made. Smooth perfect lines that hide the bulk of the pentaprism, feels perfect in the hand. Modern classic from my POV, but I guess those discrepancies are what makes us human;)

 

Agreed.. R8/R9/S all beautiful and practical. When I first picked up the S-007, I was shocked that the shutter dial was "missing".

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Quite implausible indeed. Having said that, a new system would have to be sufficiently different from any existing systems so as not to cannibalise sales.

 

 

Well that's some contradiction!

 

I've read many times on this forum comments that a new camera shouldn't take away M sales.

 

What are Leica going to do, wait for someone else to do that?

 

To be fair the new system camera was probably signed off long before the Q appeared and for whatever reason Leica feel that a faux retro SLR type design is the way to go (odd given their insistence that they couldn't compete in the SLR market).

 

Of course an EVIL body with the M form factor would have appealed much more to existing M users as an alternative, as well as competing with Sony and Fuji, as they are about to.

 

It does rather sound like it will be a 'me too' product. I hope not.

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What are Leica going to do, wait for someone else to do that?

Nobody will. The Leica M is the only digital rangefinder and I rather doubt that will ever change.

 

As far as those photographers who couldn’t be bothered to use a rangefinder are concerned, we have to wait and see what Leica comes up with.

Edited by mjh

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What are Leica going to do, wait for someone else to do that?

 

We are rapidly heading into the  post -gutenberg period ,then there will be huge changes to the camera /smartphone  as  text and imagery weld into one.

Edited by Imants

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... for whatever reason Leica feel that a faux retro SLR type design is the way to go (odd given their insistence that they couldn't compete in the SLR market).

 

There's a difference between 'looks like an SLR' and 'is an SLR'.  Many people care more about how a camera functions than what it looks like.

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There's a difference between 'looks like an SLR' and 'is an SLR'.  Many people care more about how a camera functions than what it looks like.

 

What it looks like, is part of how it functions. You can't deny that. 

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The thing with using old design language for a new camera is that Leica used the M for the Q, the Leica i for the X and the M for ummm - the M.  These were iconic camera designs, nearly archetypal. The same cannot be said, I think, for the Leicaflexes. Technically fantastic, the shape was, IMO, not "typically Leica" (Except of course to the  small group of those familiar with the Leica reflex history) So using it as a design base for a modern digital would not be as effective as one might hope.

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Nobody will. The Leica M is the only digital rangefinder and I rather doubt that will ever change.

 

As far as those photographers who couldn’t be bothered to use a rangefinder are concerned, we have to wait and see what Leica comes up with.

Some of us remember when Leica said that  "it was impossible to design and make a digital rangefinder".  So Epson took up the challenge and made the 6mpx RD1, which was immediately successful, until Leica eventually produced the M8.   Leica learned something from that IMHO.

 

I also remember joining the rush from using rangefinders to SLR's in the late fifties.  We then extolled the virtues of capturing on film exactly what we could see through the viewfinder without adjusting for parallax.  Cds exposure meters and Weston Masters at the ready!   Personally I have never used another rangefinder either film or digital since.  I have enjoyed the wonderful camera designs of today and the undeniable freedom that digital photography provides.   I for one will welcome a real German made  Leica digtal, mirrorless, interchangeable lens, high resolution viewfinder camera. 

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It's like a vegetarian sausage or nut cutlet. Why pretend to be something else?

 

We don't try to make a fillet steak look like a carrot after all!

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So, where is the competition? and what is dying?

 

My guess is, compacts are almost dead, and SLRs are in real trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

John

SLR's outsell ILC cameras by 3 to 1 (industry figures from CIPA). Sales of cameras are showing a continuing downward trend however.

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SLR's outsell ILC cameras by 3 to 1 (industry figures from CIPA). Sales of cameras are showing a continuing downward trend however.

It's not about absolute sales, James, but what the sales numbers are trending to. The last figures I saw showed a very significant downward trend. Would be good if you could post a link.

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Yeah I found the removal of the shutter dial on the 007 curious as well. I understand the reasoning behind it but it would take some getting use to. At least it has the lcd top plate which might end up making it easier but on the T having no shutter feedback on top is a bit annoying.

 

Agreed.. R8/R9/S all beautiful and practical. When I first picked up the S-007, I was shocked that the shutter dial was "missing".

Edited by johnloumiles

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SLR's outsell ILC cameras by 3 to 1 (industry figures from CIPA). Sales of cameras are showing a continuing downward trend however.

 

That's true from the latest bald figures James, but they need to be tempered with the fact the DSLR's are the incumbent and Mirrorless the challenger.  It will take a while, and the statistics will vary by region, but the writing is on the wall I think.  It will be interesting to see the market reaction when the big boys (Canikon) finally decide to join in.

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Those were my exact thoughts that I didn't write down. I read that the Leicaflex was referred to as the "Diesel Leica". Thought that was rather fitting for the time.

 

 

The thing with using old design language for a new camera is that Leica used the M for the Q, the Leica i for the X and the M for ummm - the M. These were iconic camera designs, nearly archetypal. The same cannot be said, I think, for the Leicaflexes. Technically fantastic, the shape was, IMO, not "typically Leica" (Except of course to the small group of those familiar with the Leica reflex history) So using it as a design base for a modern digital would not be as effective as one might hope.

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What it looks like, is part of how it functions. You can't deny that. 

 

 

Sure I can.  There's a huge difference between the function of a mirrorless camera and an SLR no matter what either one looks like.

 

 

Yeah I found the removal of the shutter dial on the 007 curious as well. 

 

I consider it disappointing.  The lack of a shutter speed dial is one of the things I dislike about the Sony a7-series cameras.

 

 

 

SLR's outsell ILC cameras by 3 to 1 (industry figures from CIPA). Sales of cameras are showing a continuing downward trend however.

 

And there was a time when rangefinders out-sold SLR cameras.  ILC cameras are the technological newcomers.  Better IMHO to be among the first of the full-frame ILC makers than to try playing catch-up against an established market as Leica tried with SLRs.

Edited by wildlightphoto

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Sure I can.  There's a huge difference between the function of a mirrorless camera and an SLR no matter what either one looks like.

 

 

 

I consider it disappointing.  The lack of a shutter speed dial is one of the things I dislike about the Sony a7-series cameras.

 

 

 

 

And there was a time when rangefinders out-sold SLR cameras.  ILC cameras are the technological newcomers.  Better IMHO to be among the first of the full-frame ILC makers than to try playing catch-up against an established market as Leica tried with SLRs.

 

 

Ummm... Unless you misunderstood my meaning, or I yours. You just contradicted yourself in the same post. 

 

Anyway, having the EVF/OVF in the center of the camera rather then the side, is part of the aesthetics of the camera. It also impacts the use, or how I use it. Having a shutter dial vs no shutter dial, impacts the visuals of the camera. Also the use.. I could provide tons of examples. The point is, forum and function are one. Forum being the beauty, function being how it's used. The directly relate. Also I like having RF cameras that look like Leica cameras at weddings. Nobody ever believes I'm the photographer. They think I'm a friend of the couple and they let their guards down

Really important to have a retro looking or I should say unusual not serious (with prism bump) camera in hand. 

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Yeah I found the removal of the shutter dial on the 007 curious as well. I understand the reasoning behind it but it would take some getting use to. At least it has the lcd top plate which might end up making it easier but on the T having no shutter feedback on top is a bit annoying.

 

 

 

Yeah, when I was reviewing/using the camera.. I was thinking the whole time, man I wish they hadn't done this. I really don't need to zoom in stages. A one press 100% zoom then back out is fine with me. 

 

Whatever though

 

www.jupitersnake.com if you haven't read my take on the cam. 

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Ummm... Unless you misunderstood my meaning, or I yours. You just contradicted yourself in the same post. 

 

 

?? explain

 

I think you're confusing technology and appearance.  There have been SLR cameras with viewfinders on the side.  A shutter speed dial can be dedicated to shutter speed alone or it can be a multi-fuction, multi-mode dial.  Has nothing to with where where it's placed or what it looks like.  For example the S type 007 dial - it's in the same place and looks pretty much the same as the S2 and S type 006 dial but it's function has changed.

Edited by wildlightphoto

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I read your review on the S 007 a couple days ago! Really beautiful photos, I only recently started shooting with the S2 but I can already see the giant step between the two. Was sorry to read about the issues with video - thought it might be a serious alternative to the other cameras out there if some cine lenses were built for the mount, but if you can't move the camera while shooting because of rolling shutter then you have a problem.

 

Yeah, when I was reviewing/using the camera.. I was thinking the whole time, man I wish they hadn't done this. I really don't need to zoom in stages. A one press 100% zoom then back out is fine with me.

 

Whatever though

 

www.jupitersnake.com if you haven't read my take on the cam.

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